[2021 Six Nations] France vs Wales (20/03/2021)

[TommiG88]

Wales' players are so world class, that their regions are always battling it out in Champions Cups finals year in year out

 

[Jakedood]

I would agree that there's a difference between international class and world class. I'm just saying that some people will say that, in a niche sport like Rugby, if you play for your country regularly you are by definition world class. I don't agree with that view, I find it as equally preposterous as your take that unless you get into a world 23 then you're not world class. These things aren't quantifiable so they're fun but ultimately pointless. It's just opinions about who your favourite players are at the end of the day.

The Biggar one is interesting. I don't have him down as World class but there's areas of his game that are world class (defence and high ball) and he's ******* consistent so I wouldn't begrudge anyone who did say he's world class

I'll maybe leave it here as not to get confrontational

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'll maybe leave it here as not to get confrontational

Get as confrontational as you want as long as it's not personal. All I'm saying is that it's ultimately pointless but I always like reading people views on what players they think are the best so by all means post your 23 world class players.

 

[Wasps92]

Let's see how many tries the ref gifts them and/or how many players France have sent off.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Let's see how many tries the ref gifts them and/or how many players France have sent off.

Why do you care? If neither of those things happen it won't stop you and most English fans from saying Jam Slam or what have you.

No credit will be given to the Welsh players who will still be considered average at best. No respect will be given to a nation with 50k registered players achieving their 2nd Grand Slam in 3 years and their 5th since 2005. It'll just be an anomaly or down to ref decisions so it matters not.

And they call the Welsh petty.

 

[Wasps92]

Why do you care? If neither of those things happen it won't stop you and most English fans from saying Jam Slam or what have you.

No credit will be given to the Welsh players who will still be considered average at best. No respect will be given to a nation with 50k registered players achieving their 2nd Grand Slam in 3 years and their 5th since 2005. It'll just be an anomaly or down to ref decisions so it matters not.

And they call the Welsh petty.

What can I say? It's the Anglo-Saxon in me.

 

[Welsh Exile]

What can I say? It's the Anglo-Saxon in me.

That reminds me. How's the German rugby team doing these days?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Anyway, enough of this getting sucked in (well played though guys) ive slept on it and while it's a risk I've changed my mind about 9. If Tomos has trained well I'd start him at 9. I doubt this will happen but I'm worried about Gareth Davies' form at the minute. Need a big game from him like Youngs last week.

 

[Jakedood]

I'd say something like 3 TH, 3 Hookers, 3 LH's, 4 SR's, Maybe 2 BS, 2 OS and 2 8's, 3 9's, 3 10's, 4 Wings, 2 of each
centre and 3 fullbacks

So
Tighthead - Tadgh of course, Malherbe for his monstrosity in the scrum, and could argue maybe Porter in there, but I'd go Sinckler as I love his variety
Hooker - I love a set piece oriented one, but again it's hard to mvoe from SA front row too. Dane Coles & Malcolm Marx are must haves, maybe a Jamie George there (he's a magnificent scrummager on top of darts) or could make an argument for Ken Owens. Might go for Mbonambi actually, or even Marchand who looks devastating to me. SO lets go Marx, Coles, Marchand
Loosehead - More destructive obviously, and a bit of a dearth of options here. Mako may get in because I adore his hands and his carrying has looked impressive this year, Healy 2 years ago would have been there but not anymore, I really like Cyril Baille, but maybe leave 3 spot open
Second Row - Easy for me actually - Retallick, Itoje, Etzebeth, Whitelock
BS - Tom Curry, PSdT (note to Matera, brilliant and would replace Curry if he hadnt been an asswipe)
OS - Hamish Watson, Hooper or Underhill Maybe?
8 - Duane Vermeulen, and a little left field, but if injury free, ma Boi Marcellllll Coetzee
9 - Dupont, Smith
10 - Mo'unga, Ford (Most wouldnt agree, but I love how he manages a game. I think its exceptional)
12 - Tough Here... I think Henshaw has been outstanding recently, and I love Manu for this position.
13 - James Hume.... :L Radradra, I Like goodhue too
11/14 - Anthon Watson, Cheslin Kolbe, Jacob Stockdale is immense for me one on one, and just enough to mitigate the occasional defensive lapses. Maybe May for last spot, Mapimpi is decent, not sure about Aussie wings atm, and despite the hype not a huge fan of NZ ones either
15 - Hogg, Barrett, Dulin ( love how he operates)

I've likely missed some names but i'd say you'd make the argument most of those guys are in the world class bracket

 

[ncurd]

I'd say something like 3 TH, 3 Hookers, 3 LH's, 4 SR's, Maybe 2 BS, 2 OS and 2 8's, 3 9's, 3 10's, 4 Wings, 2 of each
centre and 3 fullbacks

Loosehead - More destructive obviously, and a bit of a dearth of options here. Mako may get in because I adore his hands and his carrying has looked impressive this year, Healy 2 years ago would have been there but not anymore, I really like Cyril Baille, but maybe leave 3 spot open
9 - Dupont, Smith

9 - I'd struggle to not have Faf even if he was warming the bench for DuPont but those guys are top for me in world rugby at this present time.

Loosehead - Mako? Okay but I'm struggling tot hink why he even starts for England other than Genge isn't that much better. He was one the weakest links against France and hasn't really shown much all 6 Nations

 

[Jakedood]

9 - I'd struggle to not have Faf even if he was warming the bench for DuPont but those guys are top for me in world rugby at this present time.

Loosehead - Mako? Okay but I'm struggling tot hink why he even starts for England other than Genge isn't that much better. He was one the weakest links against France and hasn't really shown much all 6 Nations

Forgot Faf, 100%
Scrummage wise he isnt always the best Mako, though he's usually not horrific, just the odd bad game. Bu tin loose play, as a prop, I think he's done exceptionally, his carrying has been really dynamic, never mind the decoys, rucking, and some of the pullbacks. Doesnt always look glam, but even making half a yard against a well set defense is impressive in my eyes, and stands out to me

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'd say something like 3 TH, 3 Hookers, 3 LH's, 4 SR's, Maybe 2 BS, 2 OS and 2 8's, 3 9's, 3 10's, 4 Wings, 2 of each
centre and 3 fullbacks

So
Tighthead - Tadgh of course, Malherbe for his monstrosity in the scrum, and could argue maybe Porter in there, but I'd go Sinckler as I love his variety
Hooker - I love a set piece oriented one, but again it's hard to mvoe from SA front row too. Dane Coles & Malcolm Marx are must haves, maybe a Jamie George there (he's a magnificent scrummager on top of darts) or could make an argument for Ken Owens. Might go for Mbonambi actually, or even Marchand who looks devastating to me. SO lets go Marx, Coles, Marchand
Loosehead - More destructive obviously, and a bit of a dearth of options here. Mako may get in because I adore his hands and his carrying has looked impressive this year, Healy 2 years ago would have been there but not anymore, I really like Cyril Baille, but maybe leave 3 spot open
Second Row - Easy for me actually - Retallick, Itoje, Etzebeth, Whitelock
BS - Tom Curry, PSdT (note to Matera, brilliant and would replace Curry if he hadnt been an asswipe)
OS - Hamish Watson, Hooper or Underhill Maybe?
8 - Duane Vermeulen, and a little left field, but if injury free, ma Boi Marcellllll Coetzee
9 - Dupont, Smith
10 - Mo'unga, Ford (Most wouldnt agree, but I love how he manages a game. I think its exceptional)
12 - Tough Here... I think Henshaw has been outstanding recently, and I love Manu for this position.
13 - James Hume.... :L Radradra, I Like goodhue too
11/14 - Anthon Watson, Cheslin Kolbe, Jacob Stockdale is immense for me one on one, and just enough to mitigate the occasional defensive lapses. Maybe May for last spot, Mapimpi is decent, not sure about Aussie wings atm, and despite the hype not a huge fan of NZ ones either
15 - Hogg, Barrett, Dulin ( love how he operates)

I've likely missed some names but i'd say you'd make the argument most of those guys are in the world class bracket

That list is a bit mad to me haha. Ford? Come on!

My view of it would be more along the lines of someone who you'd back to have to hurt the opposition badly in a world cup final about 7/10 times, some positions will have loads others won't have many if any:

1. I don't think I'd have any to be honest, Mako and Healy were for sure, Beast and Kitshoff aren't well rounded enough for me, Kitshoff probably the closest.

2. Probably just Marx and maybe Montoya who I highly rate. (SA definitely have an advantage as world champs and not playing any significant rugby since) I think a lot of guys have faded since, George, Coles and Owens aren't quite at their 2019 levels and a few lads with potential need to add to their games or consolidate their current level like Marchand and LCD. Kelleher should get there too.

3. Furlong, Porter, Sinckler, Malherbe and Koch all get their for me. You're taking a significant step down after these lads in my opinion.

Lock. Itoje, Retallick, Whitelock, Etzebeth, Snyman, Ryan, Kruis all good for me. This position is absolutely stacked right now, guys like POC and AWJ at their peaks would fit in but they were seen as World XV players at their best, I don't think they would be now.

Blindside. Nobody's really at POMs level to be honest, tough to reach though so we'll include that second level as WC. Fairly stacked again, Curry, PSTD, Navidi, Matera and Ollivon all make the grade. Negri an outside shout.

Openside. Watson, Cane, Underhill. Kremer is another very strong player here.

8. Another relatively weak position, Vermeulan for sure but he's also 34 now so who knows how well he'll go this summer. Similar to hooker a lot of lads who need internationals to consolidate it, Doris, Aldritt, Coetzee. Maybe Simmonds but I doubt I'll think that when Doris is done with him in a few weeks. Faletau and Stander probably just faded out. Billy V obviously has the potential when fit and firing.

9. Dupont, Faf, TJ, Smith and Cubelli.

10. Honestly no one. I don't think Pollard without his pack is at that level, Sexton's and Farrell's days are behind them, Ford is a weak weak man, Mo'unga is a bit too "sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe ****". If I had to pick one it'd be Sanchez or Ntamack.

12. Probably just Henshaw. I'd have said no one prior to the ANC.

13. Radradra, Ringrose, Slade, Goodhue, Petaia. Slade and Ringer are asked to play a game totally unsuited to them at international level and look ok to good most of the time, beasts at a European level so I'd include them easily.

Wing. Again loads, Kolbe, Watson, Stockdale, LRZ, Penaud, Thomas, Clarke. Probably forgetting guys here.

15. Weak enough too. Hogg scrapes in, Barrett too probably but I think he's been figured out a bit in general. Jimmy O'Brien. Not much else to offer, Liam Williams has faded out for me.

I'm coming in at ~45 there depending on the level of strictness. Thanks for the opportunity to further detail this already messy thread and procrastinate for 30 mins. Anything to forget that I'm not out on the lash on a sunny Paddy's Day is good stuff!

 

[Jakedood]

That list is a bit mad to me haha. Ford? Come on!

My view of it would be more along the lines of someone who you'd back to have to hurt the opposition badly in a world cup final about 7/10 times, some positions will have loads others won't have many if any:

1. I don't think I'd have any to be honest, Mako and Healy were for sure, Beast and Kitshoff aren't well rounded enough for me, Kitshoff probably the closest.

2. Probably just Marx and maybe Montoya who I highly rate. (SA definitely have an advantage as world champs and not playing any significant rugby since) I think a lot of guys have faded since, George, Coles and Owens aren't quite at their 2019 levels and a few lads with potential need to add to their games or consolidate their current level like Marchand and LCD. Kelleher should get there too.

3. Furlong, Porter, Sinckler, Malherbe and Koch all get their for me. You're taking a significant step down after these lads in my opinion.

Lock. Itoje, Retallick, Whitelock, Etzebeth, Snyman, Ryan, Kruis all good for me. This position is absolutely stacked right now, guys like POC and AWJ at their peaks would fit in but they were seen as World XV players at their best, I don't think they would be now.

Blindside. Nobody's really at POMs level to be honest, tough to reach though so we'll include that second level as WC. Fairly stacked again, Curry, PSTD, Navidi, Matera and Ollivon all make the grade. Negri an outside shout.

Openside. Watson, Cane, Underhill. Kremer is another very strong player here.

8. Another relatively weak position, Vermeulan for sure but he's also 34 now so who knows how well he'll go this summer. Similar to hooker a lot of lads who need internationals to consolidate it, Doris, Aldritt, Coetzee. Maybe Simmonds but I doubt I'll think that when Doris is done with him in a few weeks. Faletau and Stander probably just faded out. Billy V obviously has the potential when fit and firing.

9. Dupont, Faf, TJ, Smith and Cubelli.

10. Honestly no one. I don't think Pollard without his pack is at that level, Sexton's and Farrell's days are behind them, Ford is a weak weak man, Mo'unga is a bit too "sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe ****". If I had to pick one it'd be Sanchez or Ntamack.

12. Probably just Henshaw. I'd have said no one prior to the ANC.

13. Radradra, Ringrose, Slade, Goodhue, Petaia. Slade and Ringer are asked to play a game totally unsuited to them at international level and look ok to good most of the time, beasts at a European level so I'd include them easily.

Wing. Again loads, Kolbe, Watson, Stockdale, LRZ, Penaud, Thomas, Clarke. Probably forgetting guys here.

15. Weak enough too. Hogg scrapes in, Barrett too probably but I think he's been figured out a bit in general. Jimmy O'Brien. Not much else to offer, Liam Williams has faded out for me.

I'm coming in at ~45 there depending on the level of strictness. Thanks for the opportunity to further detail this already messy thread and procrastinate for 30 mins. Anything to forget that I'm not out on the lash on a sunny Paddy's Day is good stuff!

All bout distracting from what should be the best day of the year

Tbf you've covered bases better than me. I just really really rate Ford as an out half, but know not everyone agrees

Michael Lowry over Jimmy O'Brien and im in cahoots my friend

I was attempting to derail my 4th thread in as many weeks, not a bad return

 

[big ginger 8]

That 50k figure? Weren't all the figures self reported by the unions with widely different interpretations of what constitutes a registered player? Pretty sure the IRFU included everyone who's a club member or registered with their school, pretty much anyone who theoretically could end up on a rugby pitch despite having last played for their school's D team three years ago.

 

[Welsh Exile]

That 50k figure? Weren't all the figures self reported by the unions with widely different interpretations of what constitutes a registered player? Pretty sure the IRFU included everyone who's a club member or registered with their school, pretty much anyone who theoretically could end up on a rugby pitch despite having last played for their school's D team three years ago.

Yeah, to be honest, I was just going off a figure I heard The Bomb say funnily enough on a pod I listened to this morning but I've not researched this figure. I know you boys like a citation on here but that's all you're getting from me. Lol.

Adam Jones has never been wrong about anything so that's good enough for me.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Wales were battered up front in the autumn so a bit more parity there is key. Hill has played well when on but I think you just want the mass of Beard or Ball to help slow the French down. Wales can't let France dominate procession like Ireland and Scotland did at times. They need to be a bit more aggressive in defence, putting more pressure on the French.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Wales were battered up front in the autumn so a bit more parity there is key. Hill has played well when on but I think you just want the mass of Beard or Ball to help slow the French down. Wales can't let France dominate procession like Ireland and Scotland did at times. They need to be a bit more aggressive in defence, putting more pressure on the French.

Yeah, our set piece was rubbish in the autumn too and thankfully that's improved massively which is a bit of a game changer as well as having Owens and Navidi and a few others.

The front 5 has always worried me but the front row is decent this 6N and Beard has really come on so I'm less worried than I normally would be in that area. If we can get parity upfront I think we'll win but that's a big if.

 

[Oliver Madden]

Wales are either going to win this or get absolutely hammered. On ability France at home should be 15 points better. However against this Wales are probably the best in the 6N at spoiling a game away from home when they need to. They've done it in all of their Grand Slam wins. After the weekend's games I really fancied Wales to win but I've watched the France v England game again and despite losing, if France repeat that performance this weekend then Wales don't have much of a chance. France by 13 points.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I think France will win but it's been a weird one for them. Thrashed Italy but so has everyone else, scraped past Ireland in the end, Scotland game cancelled then narrowly lost to England. If France played to well to their potential and Wales play last autumn level then they would probably get hammered but I don't see that happening on what we have seen so far. It was a stop, start first two games for Wales, there was periods where they played well but far too long where it was all Ireland and Scotland. They were helped by two correct sending off though. The England game Wales were pretty good, they got lucky with two incorrect/harsh decisions but that took the shine off a decent Welsh performance, that last twenty they dominated England.

 

[ForumWhore]

It will be one of those games where it looks like France are about to explode into creativity and tries, but Wales will be having none of it. Wales by 10.