[2024 TRC] New Zealand vs Argentina - 10/08/24

[IT157]

I want to know where all the Foster haters are? having to deal with them complaining for years about foster and how great Razor is.
This loss is worse than any of those losses under Foster, 38 points is the most NZ has conceded in NZ ever? I can already see one person still blaming Foster which is Hilarious.

You can't say Razor inherited a bad team, if not for a red card and some really unlucky/inaccurate refereeing calls they would have won a WC. Despite not winning the WC the AB's played great rugby last year.

Amazing result for Argentina, you could see as soon as the game started Argentina were playing like it was a final and really wanted it and the AB's were going through the motions. Despite that the AB's seemed to have the game under control until that slap back from Reece gifted a soft try. Then the 2nd half the AB's forwards lost parity the lineouts and Scrums were ugly, they started to concede turnovers at the breakdown and that was where the game was lost.

The bad:
I don't think Savea worked as captain, sure as a player he gave it all, but the team needed direction and don't feel like he did what was needed. it's not enough to lead by example he needs to gather, lift and focus the team and I didn't see him or anyone do that.
ball security has been an issue in all tests this year IMO. hate on Sam Cane all you want but he would visit more rucks than anyone else and secure ball which was always a thankless job. Dalton and Savea are not that type of player. Sam whitelock was another player who was a master there.
obviously, locks are a problem right now, lost Brodie and Sam, plus Scott & Patrick are injured and Josh Lord is only just making a comeback. despite that I thought they did ok as individuals it was more the forward effort, they were a part of that lacked.
Aumua - we all know what impact he can make but if he can't throw then he shouldn't be playing. Those last lineouts that were a shambles had a huge impact.
The 2 big mistakes. Reece seems to be struggling to get into games, he's been busy without making much impact. He really did overdo that slap back, but it was still unlucky. Just need to be smarter and have more patient. I'm not sure about that DMac pass, he seems to be getting the blame but the pass looked ok it just seemed to go right between the Barrett's and maybe they both thought the other was going to take it.
I'm not sold on the structure of the attack it seemed like we operated with quite short passing from 9 and again struggled to get wide but I think generally the attack was OK we just seemed to struggle securing the ball with the forwards. Again, if we are going to operate with a close in attack like that, we need people doing that Sam Cane job and be on hand to secure the ball when needed, Too many turnovers.

The Good
I think DMac is showing that when we can deliver him some good ball he will get the attack going. we really just didn't get enough of it.
ALB was the pick of the backs and Darry played well in the first half in particular. I thought Codie Taylor had a better game after being fairly quiet against England. Savea carried well and won some big turnovers. Talea was sharp.

Argentina were ruthless, could see in their intensity and some of the tactics they used that they really targeted this game.

Interesting Times, the Razor Honeymoon is basically over. We expect an AB team to build well over 5-6 weeks they have had. Razor is inexperienced in building a test team in this way, the forwards haven't turned in anything close to what would be considered a good performance. Either/or/both the lineout and scrum have been problematic and now the breakdown gets exploited. The team is 6+ weeks together now and in some ways its back to the drawing board?

Agreed!

Razor loses a match in charge. It's Fosters fault! lol

 

[OllyM97]

The NZ media have created massively unrealistic expectations for Razor’s first year. I saw a couple of Kiwi journalists predict at the start of the year that the ABs could win 13 of the 14 tests this season. Get in the real world. A team stripped of Mo’unga, Smith, Whitelock, Retallick, Cane etc and with Jordan out injured were always going to take time to find their feet - new combinations and game plans don’t just click straight away.

I thought at the start of the year with the tough schedule that they had that the ABs would cop at least 4 defeats. it was fanciful to expect a re-building side to beat South Africa, Ireland or France away from home. This is not the era of the All Blacks being the undisputed top dogs anymore. To me you can only start to make a judgement on Razor in 2025.

 

[Ferrari333SP]

 

[Alex Anghel]

The NZ media have created massively unrealistic expectations for Razor's first year. I saw a couple of Kiwi journalists predict at the start of the year that the ABs could win 13 of the 14 tests this season. Get in the real world. A team stripped of Mo'unga, Smith, Whitelock, Retallick, Cane etc and with Jordan out injured were always going to take time to find their feet - new combinations and game plans don't just click straight away.

I thought at the start of the year with the tough schedule that they had that the ABs would cop at least 4 defeats. it was fanciful to expect a re-building side to beat South Africa, Ireland or France away from home. This is not the era of the All Blacks being the undisputed top dogs anymore. To me you can only start to make a judgement on Razor in 2025.

I believe that the overall biggest expectation was for Razor to break the Hansen/Foster post 2017 pattern and playing specialists in their respective positions.

I believe it hasn’t happened so far for a number of reasons, the most obvious one being that he was afraid to start his tenure by losing games by playing newbies at 6, 8 and/or 13. I am glad that the Argentina loss happened way earlier than almost anyone would have expected though.

 

[miccloarch]

I believe that the overall biggest expectation was for Razor to break the Hansen/Foster post 2017 pattern and playing specialists in their respective positions.

Was it? There are advantages to either approach. Depends a lot on the specific individuals. Telea does look lost defensively on the left wing (I think he should be dropped for Clarke anyway) but Ardie is world class at 8 and 7. Utility players are important too.

he was afraid to start his tenure by losing games by playing newbies at 6, 8 and/or 13

This is definitely true but it's probably going to continue because as you can see, one loss and AB fans lose their minds (and Fozzie fans would obviously love to see him fail). He wants to build winning momentum and good performances before experimenting too much. Even now though, it seems there's information overload and some players look a bit confused at times.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I believe that the overall biggest expectation was for Razor to break the Hansen/Foster post 2017 pattern and playing specialists in their respective positions.

I believe it hasn't happened so far for a number of reasons, the most obvious one being that he was afraid to start his tenure by losing games by playing newbies at 6, 8 and/or 13. I am glad that the Argentina loss happened way earlier than almost anyone would have expected though.

that was my expectation.....and yet we've seen almost all the loosies selected as 5.5 (barret still seen as an option at 6), 6.5 or 7.5 (savea was largely playing 7 in Japan), no out and out 8

i think you right but its also such an obviously flawed idea seeing that is one of the reasons people believe fozzie failed

 

[Saintjay]

I've only just caught up on the game. Why was it so empty? Was it ticket costs, apathy, not a popular All Blacks area, a nothing game to fans. I was just surprised as AB's attendances always seem decent.

 

[saulan]

I've only just caught up on the game. Why was it so empty? Was it ticket costs, apathy, not a popular All Blacks area, a nothing game to fans. I was just surprised as AB's attendances always seem decent.

Seen a lot of talk on this. Combination wildly expensive tickets, Wellington getting two NZ tests (with this one being the less appealling of the two) and a general perception of a poor game day experience for supporters (latter is more of a minor point, but ties in quite strongly with the first one, especially when whether isn't the most appealling).

 

[Kiwiwomble]

that sums it up, but a bit of a stuff up seeing as Hamilton and Chch dont have tests this year

 

[Ripper]

Well that sucked

 

[petite]

hi people that game got me back here!! cheers
dude felipes approach paid off. he bet everything on preassure he fielded "5 backrowers" (matera kramer and gonzalez where inmense but also rubiolo in the second and gallo. its kind of soft in the scrum but great in the loose. specially worked because he didnt have a single srum. could add chocobares to the list.
pumas where strangely clinical. i saw the Abs choke like never before (vs the pumas)
from minute one you could see the they could do it.
a few key unforced errors from the ab where very costly. that line out that creevy collected..d mac pass to nobody etc. the penalies where more about desperation
saw the game 3 times
whats next? hope the pumas can deliver again. winning will be huge, but a good performance a loosing bonus will make it for me
if the abs start well they can go willd, but it the pumas can hold it and be close for 60 mins they have a chance. they gonna need a step foward for this.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Went off of highlights the first couple days after but finally got to watch it Tuesday night.

This was a very aesthetically pleasing game of rugby. Both teams played very fast and a little loose but they definitely played rugby as hard as they can. New Zealand made a few crucial errors and that was the difference.

25 is a high penalty count for an international but all the penalties seemed to come from the attacking team playing so fast. Just a really fun game to watch and a second dramatic half.