I genuinely didn’t really know what to make of Sheehan’s try in terms of the law it wasn’t dangerous and there was some controversy when May leaped for the line a few 6 nations ago against Italy which was ultimately awarded, it’s kind of one of those rare ones, if it’s in the act of scoring should it stand, is it massively different from wingers diving for the line, it’s just not a regular occurrence especially off a penalty in that situation, it just looked odd, I’m not really fussed either way as long as it’s just consistently.
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2nd test - Australia v British & Irish Lions
- Thread starter General Melchett
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Here's a discussion from rugbyrefs on this subject and this incident
Jumping over the "ruck"
Last week in a Super pacific game , Angus Gardner disallowed a try for a player jumping over the ruck. So attacking ruck just short of the line, blue player picks the ball up and jumps over the pile of player and touches down for a try . AG says no try pen against blue you cant jump over the...
rugbyrefs.com
To be fair to Campese he has no beef with the decision
David Campese's forthright verdict on 'the elephant in the room' and what Joe Schmidt should look at to 'avoid humiliation'
🗣️ "The officials nailed the call - alongside Andrea Piardi were Nika Amashukeli and Ben O’Keeffe - two of the world’s foremost referees and they took their time to make the correct call in a calm way." #AUSvBIL #Lions2025
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This is where each one is slightly different. That was jumping over a ruck, this was jumping over a tackle. However, there is obviously still a lot of inconsistency because if I'm reading that correctly, Gardner didn't give it, yet other refs have. In this case Piardi explained the reason. You can't jump over a tackle normally, but you can in the act of scoring. I think that's ridiculous and very confusing personally. What if you jump and then land on a defender and it's held up? Is that illegal or is it anytime where you're trying to score? However, if those are the rules then that's what we go by. Simple.Here's a discussion from rugbyrefs on this subject and this incident
Jumping over the "ruck"
Last week in a Super pacific game , Angus Gardner disallowed a try for a player jumping over the ruck. So attacking ruck just short of the line, blue player picks the ball up and jumps over the pile of player and touches down for a try . AG says no try pen against blue you cant jump over the...
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Just watched the test for the first time...
Poor Schmidt, everything went against him.
He set that Aus team up really well, his big hitters weren't fit, Skelton and Valetini looked off their feet 35 mins, but the kicking game and contact area he outplayed Farrell IMO.
The 6 - 2 split worked against him when Potter went off, Mcdermott just isnt a winger.
Aus not setting for kicks is a coach killer, penalties and restarts being caught out not in position 3 or 4 times, my head would pop off as a coach.
And then that 2 scores just before half time destroyed all the good work of the first half.
Its a young Aus team, who were superbly set up to minimise the weaknesses, and to play to Lions weaknesses, and they came much closer than the player pool as individuals should really have.
Poor Schmidt, everything went against him.
He set that Aus team up really well, his big hitters weren't fit, Skelton and Valetini looked off their feet 35 mins, but the kicking game and contact area he outplayed Farrell IMO.
The 6 - 2 split worked against him when Potter went off, Mcdermott just isnt a winger.
Aus not setting for kicks is a coach killer, penalties and restarts being caught out not in position 3 or 4 times, my head would pop off as a coach.
And then that 2 scores just before half time destroyed all the good work of the first half.
Its a young Aus team, who were superbly set up to minimise the weaknesses, and to play to Lions weaknesses, and they came much closer than the player pool as individuals should really have.
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That why I shared the quote.
World rugby not publishing the findings on the Morgan decision as they are wanting to protect the officials is mad sus
What about non-Lions FHs?
A FH in a world cup final, for example? or SF? or QF?
At what point does it move from being "a dereliction of duty" to "something that just isn't done"
Are you claiming that the Lions, and Guscott personally, practised drop goals in 1997?
How many FHs in the last 20 years, have hit more than 10 drop goals in their career?
Aside from a brief spate of FHs practising the skill in the wake of Janie de Beer in 1999* - how many FHs ever, have hit more than 10 drop goals?
How much is the "fault" of the player? and how much the coaches? Especially given that it's not a solo skill.
Of course, it can be done on the spur of the moment - see Guscott, or Ford; but it goes against the game-plan. How forgiving do we think anyone would be if Russell (of all people) went off-plan and missed, relieving all that built-up pressure?
* so this takes out the likes of De Beer, Wilkinson, Mehrtens, O'Gara, Dominguez, Arbizu, Jenkins etc
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I doubt professional rugby teams across the board have forgotten what a drop goal is. Most sides have given up going for goal off a penalty 10m either side of the posts or further than 35m out unless points are at an absolute premium. It's just a case of expected return on the shot.
Drop goals are a pretty low percentage play for only 3 points, I think it makes sense that they're generally only attempted late in tight games and when a team is down a player.
Like Ford has the most of any current T1 international. Still scuffed an attempt to win the game directly in front and 25m out v NZ last year. Just a difficult skill to execute. Vs Argentina in the world cup, territory in the case of a miss would also have been a positive which I presume was calculated into the decision.
FWIW, I did say during the game that the Lions should be setting up for a DG, I was watching with two guys who've played to a pretty high amateur level who completely disagreed when 10m out.
Drop goals are a pretty low percentage play for only 3 points, I think it makes sense that they're generally only attempted late in tight games and when a team is down a player.
Like Ford has the most of any current T1 international. Still scuffed an attempt to win the game directly in front and 25m out v NZ last year. Just a difficult skill to execute. Vs Argentina in the world cup, territory in the case of a miss would also have been a positive which I presume was calculated into the decision.
FWIW, I did say during the game that the Lions should be setting up for a DG, I was watching with two guys who've played to a pretty high amateur level who completely disagreed when 10m out.
Randall passed the ball to an invisible 9ft tall player behind Ford which gave him half the time to line the kick up
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Its all trends really, a few years ago there were spates of drop goals on penalty advantage, Biggar, Sexton, Ford, Farrell were all at it...
But those were different times, defences were on top, the breakdown allowed a competition, and turnovers were rife. It was safer to manoeuvre into a position, central, have your forwards pick and go until pen advantage then take 2 attempts at the 3 instead of the 1.
We see less defensively tight games today, kicking, tackle and breakdown rules have all changed the nature of defending, and given attacks a better platform, so positioning for a try is now seen as less risky.
Russell would have looked at drop goal position about 90 seconds on, approaching the red, if the pack weren't going anywhere im sure, he just didnt need to look for it yet.
But those were different times, defences were on top, the breakdown allowed a competition, and turnovers were rife. It was safer to manoeuvre into a position, central, have your forwards pick and go until pen advantage then take 2 attempts at the 3 instead of the 1.
We see less defensively tight games today, kicking, tackle and breakdown rules have all changed the nature of defending, and given attacks a better platform, so positioning for a try is now seen as less risky.
Russell would have looked at drop goal position about 90 seconds on, approaching the red, if the pack weren't going anywhere im sure, he just didnt need to look for it yet.
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Which is another variable to setting it up, have to get a quick 10m pass away off a quick ruck that doesn't allow the defence to set.
Yep, Schmidt absolutely hated this when he came. Took it out of Leinster and then Ireland.
Rob Kearney used to be a bit of a weapon for a long range attempt, rarely saw it after Schmidt who preferred an attacking platform 30m out.
1) Immense leadership and "a sign of maturity" that he... referred to an ex-team-mate by their nickname.
2) Covers a shallow restart, allowing Aki to carry from deep.
3) Replacement OC stands in the OC channel in defence. This is obviously, real Test Match Animal stuff.
4) Scans the Aussie attack, and makes the wrong decision; gets screamed at by his winger, and realises the winger was right. Phrased as "Though not always obvious, such off-the-ball running is crucial in allowing a side to maintain width in their defence".
5) "keeps moving as Tom Wright ships the ball onto Harry Wilson".
6) "Wilson bulldozes through him, yet is brought down by Beirne".
7) Escapes from that ruck, and joins the defensive line in the position expected of someone escaping that ruck.
8) Meaning that Genge can make a tackle (seriously, Genge making a tackle is evidence that Farrell was key).
9) Misses a tackle on Suaali'i, but is 3rd man in once the tackle is made.
..............9a) A quote from Felix Jones "Don't tell me Owen Farrell missing the most tackles at a World Cup is a good thing" - but it's all okay if he chooses which tackles to miss...
10) Chases a clearance kick, but isn't fast enough to be effective. But at least he tracks back again afterwards.
11) Is one of many players calling a clear forward pass as being forward.
12) A bog-standard pull-back play at first receiver - as seen by every IC multiple times a match... and quote a few props. Russell then fixes 2 defenders, and puts in a brilliant pass for Kinghorn in space.
13) Passes to Kinghorn instead of Aki. Kinghorn and then Freeman do good things.
14) Picks up a messy pass off the floor - Absolutely fair, a decent bit of skill.
15) Stuart chooses not to pass to Farrell, and it's the right decision.
16) Joins a ruck, running in from quite a way away, as no-one closer had realised it might be lost - absolutely fair, good reading of the game there.
I've no actual problem with Farrell. I think 100 caps is beyond flattering for his skill levels, but accept that he's a coach and motivator on the playing field, and that England didn't have a huge number of options at IC (oh for Slade to have played there for his club). This does NOT mean that I think he's a bad player.
It's the level of praise (and condemnation) he receives that is orders of magnitude beyond what he's actually done.
Using someone's nickname
Standing where he's supposed to stand
Missing 2 out of 3 tackle attempts, but it's okay because he didn't just stand there feeling sorry for himself
Being slow chasing a kick, but it's okay because he didn't just stand there feeling sorry for himself
Making a pass you'd expect your THP to make 99 times out of 100
Existing whilst someone else does something
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AngloScotsHybrid
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I think you are taking my post a bit seriously. It was tongue in cheek.
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British and Irish Lions: World Rugby boss rejects Joe Schmidt's clearout complaints
Alan Gilpin rejects Joe Schmidt's claim that the decision around Jac Morgan's clearout at the end of the second Test contravened the sport's player welfare drive.
www.bbc.co.uk
Schmidt should apologize and the Australian commentators should wind their necks in as the angles I've seen don't show head or neck contact...especially as there are more reasons to chalk off the first two Australian tries than the last Lion's one.
Not worth getting bent over shape over this isn't Rassie type insanity.
Get your eyes checked love
A Lions Test try-scorer after a whirlwind week for Jones - The British & Irish Lions Website
Wherever he has played the one consistent theme for Huw Jones has been his nose for the try-line.
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