A Political Thread

[Groundhog]

Jesus Christ.........
No I'm not commenting anymore. Ignorance I can forgive, but you can't actually talk to someone that pedantic.

 

[McTallshort]

Jesus Christ.........

Just what I was thinking:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_pub_bombings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_pub_bombings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Park_and_Regent's_Park_bombings

Good job we don't all play the victim for things that happened before we were born to people we didn't know.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aaKT2AdJCAc[/video]

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Sure londonderry is in Northern Ireland but my Geography isn't always great.....no checked it, it's definitely not in the republic.

Let's ignore your pig headedness for a second and completely isolate this discussion to Fifa, where it started, and members of the FAI, Ireland's governing body, not taking kindly to a poppy. Do you think that these innocent people that your army killed and their families would frequent Windsor Park or Lansdowne Road for an international soccer match? If you're unsure the answer is definitely not the former.

Now I can expand, the high majority of people in both the city and county of Derry are as Irish as I am, they are entitled to and likely have an Irish passport, they are entitled to citizenship and everything I am entitled to having been born in Dublin. If you can't understand why the people of the "Republic of Ireland", that's not an official title by the way, would not be offended by the murder of their fellow countrymen on a peaceful protest then I'm just going to assume your comprehension of history and politics is extremely limited.

 

[McTallshort]

Let's ignore your pig headedness for a second and completely isolate this discussion to Fifa, where it started, and members of the FAI, Ireland's governing body, not taking kindly to a poppy. Do you think that these innocent people that your army killed and their families would frequent Windsor Park or Lansdowne Road for an international soccer match? If you're unsure the answer is definitely not the former.

Now I can expand, the high majority of people in both the city and county of Derry are as Irish as I am, they are entitled to and likely have an Irish passport, they are entitled to citizenship and everything I am entitled to having been born in Dublin. If you can't understand why the people of the "Republic of Ireland", that's not an official title by the way, would not be offended by the murder of their fellow countrymen on a peaceful protest then I'm just going to assume your comprehension of history and politics is extremely limited.

Plenty of innocent British civilian's were murdered by a group claiming to represent Irish republicans but we don't cling to it like some huge cross we need to bare and no one in Guilford or Warrington get all offended and upset when they see a shamrock.

Again I make the point the poppy represents the fallen, its a sign of respect for anyone who has died on active service in the service of their country, its not about celebrating war particularly the grotty little one in Ulster that left blood on the hands of all sides involved. We wear a poppy to remember people we know or family members that have been killed in the futility of war. If people don't "take kindly to that" or are "offended" by that because of something that happened before they were born and normally by people long died then that's their problem and they can frankly take a running jump.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I'm not sure Hillary deleted the e-mails herself mate, I'm fairly certain she got someone else to do so and asked for it to happen. And they were deleted because they were 'personal' (according to her) and therefore not pertinent to the FBI investigation into her mishandling of classified information.

First, it is kinda obvious she didnt deleted the emails herself. Not the point. The point is that, regardless of whether she deleted them or had them deleted, they were deleted in a very, very specific way that rules out the possibility of being an accident.
Second, since she not only deleted them but also made their retrieval impossible, there is no way to know whether she is telling the truth, conveniently enough for her.
Third, we are talking about 30,000 emails!
Not sure if you use email regularly, but 30k is a lot, by any standard. You simply cannot delete such an amount of emails the way she said it happened and then claim you "made a mistake".

The problem she has, in a nutshell, is that pretty much 99% of the human race would have the moral upper hand in any debate against Trump. Clinton, unfortunately, belongs to that 1% that does not.

change taxes yes, declare war no... president has the ability to send troops where ever he wants for a limited amount of time and once they are there its really hard for congress to gain the political capital to overturn that action

Declare war, yes. You made me look it up: US constitution, Art 1, Section 8. Congress has that Power, not the President.

He does have the ability to send troops, but as i said before, there is a limit to what he can and cannot do, regardless of whether he gives a damm or not.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Plenty of innocent British civilian's were murdered by a group claiming to represent Irish republicans but we don't cling to it like some huge cross we need to bare and no one in Guilford or Warrington get all offended and upset when they see a shamrock.

Again I make the point the poppy represents the fallen, its a sign of respect for anyone who has died on active service in the service of their country, its not about celebrating war particularly the grotty little one in Ulster that left blood on the hands of all sides involved. We wear a poppy to remember people we know or family members that have been killed in the futility of war. If people don't "take kindly to that" or are "offended" by that because of something that happened before they were born and normally by people long died then that's their problem and that can frankly take a running jump.

What does a shamrock have to do with the IRA? I doubt they'd appreciate someone with a Tiocfaidh ar lá tattoo or something similar.

"I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars,"

"I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

"I want to make that 100% clear. You must understand this.

"But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

"For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland’s history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.

"For me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles – and Bloody Sunday especially - as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII.

"It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people." - James McClean

I don't take offence from it whatsoever but that quite clearly explains why people could. My personal view of the poppy or our Easter lilly or even tattoos is that wearing them or getting them doesn't really remember jack ****. There's people who wear them who don't respect those they are remembering them in any other way, very diluted if you ask me but it is a very personal thing!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

On these shores the poppy is a simple sign of rememberance and respect; anyone who doesn't see it that way is in a very small minority. Football and rugby grounds (including at the AIs) almost all hold a minute's silence often with a poppy wreath on the half way line placed by members of the armed forces. The England rugby shirt has certainly had a poppy on it in the past and both Eng and Wal will do again for their games on 12th Nov. For the Eng vs Sco wendyball, both unions want it so why on earth does FIFA stand in the way?

Do fully agree with the poppy police comments though.

 

[ncurd]

Not sure if you use email regularly, but 30k is a lot, by any standard. You simply cannot delete such an amount of emails the way she said it happened and then claim you "made a mistake".

My current inbox over a 6 year period stands at roughly 3,479, those are e-mail that had relevancy to my life and not just generic e-mails that I've deleted (those are my personal e-mails to my personal account over that time I've had just as many if not more work e-mails of which quite a few are of a personal nature as due to security policy I can't access gogglemail at work) I'm sure the Secretary of State of the USA is far more reliant. I keep everything as I'm never entirely sure what I'll need something. But you misinterpreting her "made a mistake" it wasn't a mistake that they were accidentally deleted, it was a mistake that she chose to delete them.

Also if I were a extremely public figure and my personal e-mail's were about to trawled through by and my lawyers said they were fine to remove. You'd be damned sure my e-mails would read 0 not 3,479 same for all my e-mail at work of which were of a personal nature.

 

[moyletra]

Deleted

 

[McTallshort]

What does a shamrock have to do with the IRA? I doubt they'd appreciate someone with a Tiocfaidh ar lá tattoo or something similar.

"I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars,"

"I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

"I want to make that 100% clear. You must understand this.

"But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

"For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland’s history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.

"For me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles – and Bloody Sunday especially - as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII.

"It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people." - James McClean

I don't take offence from it whatsoever but that quite clearly explains why people could. My personal view of the poppy or our Easter lilly or even tattoos is that wearing them or getting them doesn't really remember jack ****. There's people who wear them who don't respect those they are remembering them in any other way, very diluted if you ask me but it is a very personal thing!

It clearly explains that some people cling to a past they were not part of but that's his choice. I would never tell anyone they had to wear a poppy as its goes against the free will many who died in WW2 fought to protect but again I don't except people who find offence to wearing it.

Anyway crap day at work sorry for coming across like a t w a t at times

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

They're wearing them anyway... Fair ****s if it means that much to them!

 

[Bee]

I think the armband was a pretty good idea. So everybody could deceide by themselves, who they want to spend respect to or not.
I'm not entitled to say or even force upon someone else who he/her has to spend respect to. Whatever reason they might have not to.
For that I don't think the poppy on the shirt is a good idea anyway.
But I agree with FIFA being idiots once again in this issue.

 

[ncurd]

So Parliment is Sovreign and the chances of a hard brexit is silm to none.

Minor Victories

 

[BakkiesBokke]

So Parliment is Sovreign and the chances of a hard brexit is silm to none.

Minor Victories

I saw the result of the court case. Correct me if I'm wrong - were the Brexit brigade not calling for Parliamentary Sovereignty during the campaign? Surely this ruling upholds said sovereignty?

A relative of mine manufactures tools in Joburg (mainly for export). A major UK client can no longer afford the product they import, citing the pound's weakness and slight strengthening of the Rand against a whole host of currencies. My cousin has new orders from German and Norwegian customers, to make up for the loss, but it certainly suggests problems down the line, albeit that this is merely one anecdotal example.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't know anymore I'm so confused one side of the press says one thing another side says another thing people taking so many comments out of context on both sides.

what happens Happens.

Although with the Tories majority I can't see anything changing too much I mean Labour is massively divided, Lib dems have only 8 seats.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If it does have to go through parliament will there be party whips?

 

[ncurd]

Tigs I don't have a link right now but you can read the full judgement for yourself and take any media spin out of the decision. However my lawyer friends (who sit on seperate sides of the political spectrum but are good people) seam to think this was a forgone conclusion if you have incling of the law. They hadn't read the full judgement the last time I checked though but were about too.

The problem is it make things diffciult on the politics front, the reality is we've long had arguement that we should be getting laws from Brussells and parliment should be Sovereign. I know we've had that very arguement in this thread during the campaign. The problem is parliment is actually anti-Brexit in the MP's that have been elected and they extremely unlikely to vote clean break with EU (the hard Brexit). This makes some (I've been hearing plenty on the radio that welcome this decision) Brexiters are anti-parliment vote as we'll end up with the soft Brexit (Only a madman will think they won't trigger article 50).

Here the big that annoy me you can't pick and chose what parts of the law (and unwritten contitution) you want to adhere to back your political will, you want parliment to be sovreign this is how it works. you don't like your local MP because you think he screw you on Brexit, vote them out! Don't like the current laws? Vote for people who want to change them.

I despise an unelected upper chamber but I don't get to ifgnore it because I don't like it all I can do is use my vote to get it changed.

- - - Updated - - -

If it does have to go through parliament will there be party whips?

Up to parties themselves.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I was on about Brexit as a whole not the current ruling. (I understand that). I'm just fed up about the general over reactions from both sides of the media etc at some of the things.


The Tories will prob have the whips out, It is May's career on the line.
Labour will be interesting as a few Labour strongholds traditionally voted out.

All very interesting.

 

[Gavin]

Some of the responses of the public are both troubling and disturbing on social media.

Comments like "traitor", "she isn't English or British, look at the colour of her skin", "hang her for treason against the people's will", "is she a Muslim", "put her address on Facebook"

I tried to point out that she should be praised for pointing out that British Law wasn't being followed. She is standing up for British Laws which 'Leavers' wanted to be ruled by. Unfortunately when I also suggested that it was double standards that only some British Laws should be followed, but not all, it did not go down well.