A Political Thread

[j'nuh]

I do wish the rags would give it a rest. Movements like Corbyn's thrive on attention and persecution.

The newspapers are nearly exclusively owned by rich people who made their money off the current establishment. Anyone who opposes the establishment is going to get a kicking from the media. Corbyn will be targeted because he isn't of the establishment and poses a threat to anyone of the establishment. In the meantime, people talk about being fed up with the lack of a real choice in politics; and yet are duped by these non-stories which make much ado about nothing. Anyone who actually provides any real choice to the democratic process is routinely hounded out of politics.

This was floating around facebook, which kind of proves my point:

Movements thrive in spite of, not because of, negative media attention and persecution. It happens when the establishment has clearly shown to fail and people lose confidence in the establishment.

The reality is that a Corbyn-led Labour provides the only alternative to austerity. All three major parties backed austerity in the recent election, some by greater margins than others. Anyone who rejects austerity (economically or socioeconomically) will naturally align with Corbyn. That's not a movement thriving on attention and persecution, but a movement aligned behind a brand of political ideology.

Yet I feel people often fail to see the bigger picture when talking about the economy. If the benefits of a healthy economy funnel towards the few, as I see the case being under the Tories, then it's hardly a desirable economic model. A healthy recovery should be shared by most sections of society. I'm more taken in by a slightly weaker yet fairer economic model. That being said, it's still worth questioning whether austerity is the best solution towards economic recovery. We've had a slow recovery and we've seen a dip in the employment rate; not exactly something desirable coming out of a financial crisis.

 

[j'nuh]

oops double post

An that in a nut shell is everything that is wrong with British politics, Why oh Why would you make an ex solicitior, with a background in migration and Human rights the shadow minister for agriculture? Oh because shes a woman...well that makes perfect sense.

Why are you bringing gender into this? Very few cabinet/shadow cabinet members have expertise in the field. Jeremy Hunt never worked in health. George Osborne never worked in economics. Michael Fallon never worked in the military. etc. etc.

 

[McTallshort]

oops double post


Why are you bringing gender into this? Very few cabinet/shadow cabinet members have expertise in the field. Jeremy Hunt never worked in health. George Osborne never worked in economics. Michael Fallon never worked in the military. etc. etc.

I know it's ridiculous. If you have someone in charge of something at that level then they should have some experience in that field. I wouldn't mind if certain minister's were not elected MP's but were brought into government because they knew what they were doing and not because they were mates with the PM or had to make up a gender quoter .

 

[Superalexmarket]

earthquake.... ****tttt!!!!

 

[Peat]

Given that Corbyn's cabinet proudly mentioned they had the highest number of women ever and gave Eagle a last minute promotion to have a woman doing something important, I feel it's pretty safe that some of the cabinet ministers have been selected mainly because they are women.

And j'nuh... there's plenty of people out there who get drawn to something because it takes a panning. Look at UKIP thriving despite being called a bunch of racists by everyone. Andy Murray tweeting "Vote independence" due to the negativity at the last moment. Every person who went for some sort of loose leaving because the man told them it was wrong. And, yeah, all the lefties I saw getting more and more pro-Corbyn with every hatchet job in the press, all of them highly skeptical of the press to begin with.

Bad publicity is better than no publicity, and for an awful lot of Britain, bad publicity from the establishment is good publicity.

If the media restricted itself to short mostly neutral articles about Corbyn, he wouldn't be nearly as big, just as with Farage before. But they won't, because they're far more interested in him as entertainment than they are in him as an enemy.

 

[YoungScud]

And I will post 10 things in the mail and call it fact blah blah.

All press is a mix of facts, half truths and opinions and you believe the ones you want too.

So this wan't in fact a Daily mail headline from 1938?

 

[optimuswolf]

I know it's ridiculous. If you have someone in charge of something at that level then they should have some experience in that field. I wouldn't mind if certain minister's were not elected MP's but were brought into government because they knew what they were doing and not because they were mates with the PM or had to make up a gender quoter .

I'm not so sure. Having worked in govt for a decade or so and with dozens of ministers they don't really need to be subject matter experts to be really good. Plenty of people to help them. They aren't CEOs they are politicians.

 

[ncurd]

I'm not so sure. Having worked in govt for a decade or so and with dozens of ministers they don't really need to be subject matter experts to be really good. Plenty of people to help them. They aren't CEOs they are politicians.

Alot of CEO's barely can be considered experts either....

 

[McTallshort]

Alot of CEO's barely can be considered experts either....

Yeah but most tend to be. These are positions of great power and responsibility and you should have at least some degree of knowledge of that field if your going to give someone a job.

 

[valley commando]

Corbyn really is going to be a disaster isn't he! Makes me really angry that there isn't going to be an effective opposition to Cameron and Osborne. Can we invent a time machine and go get David Miliband in?

Corbyn is a Communist posing as a labourite, he's spouting more crap about benefits and how people shouldn't have to look for work if they don't want to and have you seen his reply's to questions he doesn't like (most of them) he gets louder and louder and has absolutely no idea how to conduct himself.
Also check out what he said about PQT

 

[YoungScud]

Corbyn is a Communist posing as a labourite, he's spouting more crap about benefits and how people shouldn't have to look for work if they don't want to and have you seen his reply's to questions he doesn't like (most of them) he gets louder and louder and has absolutely no idea how to conduct himself.
Also check out what he said about PQT

And there it is. Daily Mail headline writer.

 

[valley commando]

And there it is. Daily Mail headline writer.

He's a mindless p---k with about as much sense as someone without any sense, anybody who thinks he is credible is either on drugs, a dole scrounger or mentally deficient. This is the end of the labour party unless they get rid of him quickly.

 

[McTallshort]

And there it is. Daily Mail headline writer.

Oh no! What an insult! Quick stone him for crimes against the permanently offended

 

[TobesHodges]

Corbyn won't make it 4 years, he is super creepy.
Could you imagine this guy being in control of the countries national security, international relations etc. it's a worry..

If there are any students on here please explain this to me:-
I don't understand why students are such massive labour supporters still.. Corbyn wants to tax the high earners of the country to push them back down the ladder and create equality at the bottom end (say what it is 'communism').
Yet don't students pay massive fees for their education to get the high earning jobs? I thought that's what University was about. I
f your a young labour supporter you might as well just go get a job now and settle..
I don't understand living in a country where working hard for my money doesn't pay.. I know it's a right wing view but I guess that's just how I see it.. :/

 

[Mcfadden]

I'm not a massive leftist or anything, but I think the idea that you pay massive fees to get the high earning jobs is a bit naive in today's age. I mean, yes, that's the idea behind it. But on anecdotal evidence around the world you hear of more and more people in highly regarded professions either not being able to make it or being underpaid.

I think the rise of politicians like Bernie Sanders, and Jeremy Corbyn are for many reasons, but to your point, is largely to do with people being fed up with companies making millions (in many cases billions), and not sharing the wealth with employees to a sufficient level. I agree with you, that you should be able to do well and not get punished for it through crippling taxation. But the idea that large corporations are anywhere near being crippled is laughable. They've been swimming in cash for a long time now. The global recession didn't change that. Among the mantra of "we have to tighten our belts" many firms and corporate executives continued to do what they have always done. The same disregard for employees, the same level of exorbitant salaries and golden handshakes at the top, the same poor labor conditions.

 

[ncurd]

I think also people get confused between marxism, socialism and communism there also degrees of left wingness. I don't think Corbyn is part of the radical left in the strictist sense although he's pretty strong. So he doesn't believe in complete redistribution of wealth (expire what people may think) what he belive in is greater redistribution of wealt. For example cubing the difference between between the lowest paid worker of an organisation and the highest paid by introducing a maximum wage. That's not communism that's where there is no difference in pay and it doesn't work. Will Corbyn's idea work? Extremely unlikely most top earners will just relocate to work in other countries. That's not to say he doesn't have a point about pay inequality.

It should be noted most graduate students will probably get nowhere the maximum pay, you get paid more but unless you're lucky you don't get paid that much. Most students from my perspective are attracted to social liberalism more than socialism anyway.

To answer valley commandos asseration about drugs, dole or mentally deficient. Most Corbyn supporters I know earn a fair whack, are a fair bit more intelligent than the average bear and don't do drugs. So yeah typical stupid assumption, it's like saying all UKIP supporters are racists.

 

[optimuswolf]

But....I'd say that if those people think Corbyn is going to lead them to power.....harsh but not far off to question their gray matter.

Lots of people are smart but when it comes to politics what they believe is right trumps all commonsense.

I'm really hoping I'm wrong and Corbyn can unite the centre and left. But i will be amazed if he can do this.

 

[YoungScud]

The job of opposition leader isn't to seek power, although that would be a longer-term aim. No, it's to oppose. Now the right-wing media, which is pretty well most of the reptiles, might want to be witty and entertaining at his expense, but they simply expose the fact that he terrifies them. He's an opposition leader who volubly opposes everything the Estblishment hold dear. Get ready for them to recycle everything they said about Salmond and Sturgeon, because they're basically a lazy shower.

Anyone who uses words like 'mindless p---k' and 'anybody who thinks he is credible is either on drugs, a dole scrounger or mentally deficient' might do well to consider who's being naive here. It's the same mindset which derided and discounted the SNP. They were well beaten, remember that? Jeremy Corbyn is nobody's mug. Watch this space. In an age where we can now sidestep the news media and their slanted views, things are changing. Political engagement in Scotland wasn't a flash in the pan. It's growing and will spread elsewhere.

 

[optimuswolf]

The job of opposition leader isn't to seek power, although that would be a longer-term aim. No, it's to oppose. Now the right-wing media, which is pretty well most of the reptiles, might want to be witty and entertaining at his expense, but they simply expose the fact that he terrifies them. He's an opposition leader who volubly opposes everything the Estblishment hold dear. Get ready for them to recycle everything they said about Salmond and Sturgeon, because they're basically a lazy shower.

Anyone who uses words like 'mindless p---k' and 'anybody who thinks he is credible is either on drugs, a dole scrounger or mentally deficient' might do well to consider who's being naive here. It's the same mindset which derided and discounted the SNP. They were well beaten, remember that? Jeremy Corbyn is nobody's mug. Watch this space. In an age where we can now sidestep the news media and their slanted views, things are changing. Political engagement in Scotland wasn't a flash in the pan. It's growing and will spread elsewhere.

I think the comparison you make with the SNP is poor, because i don't know any serious people who thought they were a flash in the pan - they've won two scottish elections and almost broke the union before that GE result.

But you do raise a good point about participation based on the Scottish experience. Can labour build similar interest in england and wales based on Corbyn's ideas for the UK's direction.

I guess i doubt it. Scotland is totally anti-tory and was sick of labour incompetence up there - plus a load of people vote for the SNP based on a single issue.

The rest of the UK (well England) is not particularly anti-tory, there is no romantic single issue to exploit and cameron and osborne are generally seen as competent.

Maybe the EU in-out will provide labour with an opportunity. My lord Corbyn needs some help. Winning the votes of a load of idealistic left wingers is nothing like winning the votes of middle England.

 

[Peat]

The SNP were derided and discounted before current events. No one expected them to come as close to breaking the union as they did.

It's pretty clear politics is changing. Whether they'll change far enough to accomodate Corbyn in the mainstream I don't know but I wouldn't rule it out. I think it's a really long path uphill for him but...

I'm also not sure I'd agree with YoungScud with him not being a mug. There's a lot of poor presentation and u-turning at the moment. It doesn't inspire faith in his competence and neither does his previous record.