A Political Thread

[Deleted member 53362]

Not having a go mate but we do not have democracy in this country.

The house of lords are un-elected officials (just like in the EU) who make the actually decision on laws being passed/amended etc. So I don't understand this belief that the EU being un-elected is somehow wrong yet our own system we have lived under for decades is the same. Each government just get as many lords in as possible to favor their political stance.

Can the commons bypass the lords if it wishes? Yes

Can the commons bypass the EU? No.

There is the difference

 

[The Prop]

Can the commons bypass the lords if it wishes? Yes

Can the commons bypass the EU? No.

There is the difference

The commons can't by pass the lords if and when the choose. This only happens when the lords agree they do not need to be involved, usually to speed things up and that the majority agree on. There have only even been 7 cases where the parliament act has been invoked and on each the lords agreed with the government of the time, apart from the first which is when the Parliament act was created.

Government of Ireland Act 1914
Welsh Church Act 1914
Parliament Act 1949
War Crimes Act 1991
European Parliament Elections Act 1999
Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act 2000
Hunting Act 2004

As you can see above, none of these have been all that major (Ireland one prob being the most, and by far, significant. Each and ever single law in this country has been decided/amended/delayed by the un-elected house of lords. Often governments drop bills when the lords refuse to pass it with the outcome of further research they undertake.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

The hunting act was (and continues to be and it bypassed the lords because it wouldn't have gone though.

 

[The Prop]

The hunting act was (and continues to be and it bypassed the lords because it wouldn't have gone though.

As stated above it is one of only 7 in history were parliament have bypasses the Lords, and the hunting act had zero affect on the majority of the population. Hence the bypass. Again, other than the Ireland act all the others have basically had no impact on the vast majority of us.

The point still stand, our current system is extremely similar to the EU, unelected officials making decision on our lives, much like the EU. So this point is complete nonsense!

 

[Tony Manx]

Not having a go mate but we do not have democracy in this country.

The house of lords are un-elected officials (just like in the EU) who make the actually decision on laws being passed/amended etc. So I don't understand this belief that the EU being un-elected is somehow wrong yet our own system we have lived under for decades is the same. Each government just get as many lords in as possible to favor their political stance.

The Lords cannot prevent legislation. They can only send it back to the Commons and then only the once or maybe twice.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

As stated above it is one of only 7 in history were parliament have bypasses the Lords, and the hunting act had zero affect on the majority of the population. Hence the bypass. Again, other than the Ireland act all the others have basically had no impact on the vast majority of us.

The point still stand, our current system is extremely similar to the EU, unelected officials making decision on our lives, much like the EU. So this point is complete nonsense!

No it isnt, its completley different. The commons passes legislation, it goes to Lords who check its all legal and correct and on occasion its passed back to be corrected with the Commons having the power if they so wish to drive it though. How is that the same as the EU?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The Lords cannot prevent legislation. They can only send it back to the Commons and then only the once or maybe twice.

They can delay it for up to a year.

 

[ncurd]

Had to share this, recommend watching to the end.

Should publicly state despite my politics that voting us out of the EU does not remove us from being signed up to the European Convention of Human Rights. I believe being part of it means we have to be signed up to it though whereas we can leave it otherwise.

 

[Superalexmarket]

"It's a tough sport, very physical, but without violence. There is a lot of loyalty and great respect. It is an important sport to achieve integrity and keep alive the spirit" Pope Francis.

 

[j'nuh]

EU argument is stale now.

Let's talk about the Tories ruining health and education.

The Tories know exactly what they are doing:
1. Starve the NHS
2. Stretch resources, increase waiting times
3. Complain it isn't fit for purpose
4. Privatise parts of it

Let's just remember that Hunt doesn't even want an NHS and has called for a private-insurance based system.

And four years until we can kick them out...

 

[Deleted member 53362]

EU argument is stale now.

Let's talk about the Tories ruining health and education.

The Tories know exactly what they are doing:
1. Starve the NHS
2. Stretch resources, increase waiting times
3. Complain it isn't fit for purpose
4. Privatise parts of it

Let's just remember that Hunt doesn't even want an NHS and has called for a private-insurance based system.

And four years until we can kick them out...

Who's going to kick them out? Comrade corbyn and his funny farm? The only hope you have of getting the Tories out in 4 years is if they implode which they have every chance of doing

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean I give up now.

Tories = Pricks but that was expected
Labour = Face palm after face palm, I mean is their any leadership in that party. The Tories are there for the taking and it is just easy ride after easy ride for them becuase Labour is having it's own problems, just no accountability from them at all. Corbyn was voted as it was dreamed he would bring back labour to its roots but the trouble is
1) Labour don't want to go back to it's roots now as it is as electable
2) Corbyn has zero leadership qualities and politicians esp old gen have to big an ego and he can't control them.
- I mean i still can't believe that one of his first acts was to appoint Kerry McCarthy as Shadow Environment Secretary yeh because farmers who are already fekked off with the Gov for not stepping in on the shops screwing them on prices will love to work with someone who wants to put health warnings on meats and have it treated like cigs.


Just a mess.

And if it is a battle between Trump and Clinton my god i don't know what to do.

What is Canada like these days?

 

[j'nuh]

I mean, Labour are pretty much neck-and-neck with the Tories in the polls right now. Ahead in yougov, behind in ipsos mori, either way, only a few points in it. Corbyn is proving more electable than people thought.

Honestly, given the divisions he has to deal with in his party considering he isn't exactly a middle candidate, I think Corbyn's actually doing quite well to keep the peace. And the rest of the party will step in line when we are leading up to the election.

And who's electable of the senior Tories? Osborne, May, Hunt, Gove, Johnson?

 

[ncurd]

What is Canada like these days?

Yeah....gits elected people with you know actual credibility who would think about doing that?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

50% of cabinet women.

Guess that rules Canada out.


(Jokes before OMG comments get posted).

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, Labour are pretty much neck-and-neck with the Tories in the polls right now. Ahead in yougov, behind in ipsos mori, either way, only a few points in it. Corbyn is proving more electable than people thought.

Honestly, given the divisions he has to deal with in his party considering he isn't exactly a middle candidate, I think Corbyn's actually doing quite well to keep the peace. And the rest of the party will step in line when we are leading up to the election.

And who's electable of the senior Tories? Osborne, May, Hunt, Gove, Johnson?

Neck and neck to this government isn't good enough.

Oppositions always have a bump in support after elections due to buyers remorse etc.

A decent opposition should have a clear lead ATM. Esp with Hunt doing his best to be the most hated man in the country.

Tories don't have anyone electable really but they have a less parties to potentially split the vote (UKIP will be done by the time next elections come unless the referendum doesn't go ahead or something).

If you call this doing well I would hate to see what your shocking is.

 

[j'nuh]

Neck and neck to this government isn't good enough.

Oppositions always have a bump in support after elections due to buyers remorse etc.

A decent opposition should have a clear lead ATM. Esp with Hunt doing his best to be the most hated man in the country.

Tories don't have anyone electable really but they have a less parties to potentially split the vote (UKIP will be done by the time next elections come unless the referendum doesn't go ahead or something).

If you call this doing well I would hate to see what your shocking is.

I'm saying that he's done quite well in the circumstances, not that he's unified the party or anything like that. Like going on a rollercoaster with a glass of water, and ending the ride with it still half full. It can be considered quite a result.

Corbyn was never going to have an easy ride; it's inherently difficult to lead a party well when you don't inhabit the centre-ground in your party. It's nothing Corbyn could have changed, it's by being that he has this problem to contend with. But his actions haven't been particularly damaging. There are plenty of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" decisions he had to make, such as appointing McDonnell as shadow chancellor. But generally, I think he's done quite well to keep the peace. It's nearly always the case that the infighting is being caused by Blairites attacking him, than vice versa.

Corbyn will come into his element the closer we get to the election. People have "forgotten" about the "need" for austerity. Not even the Tory party bangs on about it any more, probably partly because of their continued failure to meet their own deficit reduction targets. I have absolutely no idea what the Tories plan on fighting the election on in 2020 that could possibly capture the public imagination. Corbyn can promise improvements to NHS, education etc., and I think the public will buy into it.

What we are seeing with the Tories is their nasty side coming out now that they don't have a moderator in a coalition. I think LD don't get the credit they deserve for it. Four more years, I reckon people will be sick of the Tories by the end.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Four more years, I reckon people will be sick of the Tories by the end.

Which is invariably the outcome when a party has served multiple terms. Might be 2 terms, maybe 3, but eventually people swing right the other way demanding change.

Mind you while Ken Livingstone's around the Tories will always have a chance. Whatever you think of him, life will be a lot duller without him.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

yet the head of indigenous affairs is a white women

 

[Deleted member 53362]

How would we know?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-escape-scrutiny-failure-reestablish-watchdog

Arms sales from the UK have not been subject to independent scrutiny for more than nine months after the mysterious disappearance of the Commons watchdog on the export of weapons and military equipment.

MPs have begun to raise concerns about the fate of the committee on arms export controls, which was not re-established at the beginning of this parliament last May.

The watchdog ceased its work after its chair Sir John Stanley retired in March following 15 years at the helm. The committee had been instrumental in embarrassing the coalition government over its decision to allow the sale of chemicals that could have been used for nerve agent weapons in Syria.


MPs and campaigners are anxious that there is scrutiny over the government’s decision to continue allowing arms exports to Saudi Arabia when there are human rights concerns about the weapons’ possible use for repression in Yemen.

Amnesty International and Saferworld say more than 100 licences for arms exports to Saudi Arabia have been issued since bombing in Yemen began in March 2015, with a value of £1.75bn in the first half of the year.

However, so far parliament has failed to set up the watchdog – made up of members of the business, foreign affairs, defence and international development committees – allowing the government to grant export licences for weapons with no independent oversight.

Crispin Blunt, the Conservative chair of the foreign affairs committee, said the delays had been because of “bureaucratic complexityâ€.

More on this topichttps://www.theguardian.com/info/2015/dec/08/daily-email-uk

But one source with knowledge of the process said the committee “seems dead in the water†with little appetite to revive it.




Ann Clwyd, Labour MP for Cynon Valley, who was on the committee for years, called for the watchdog to be established urgently as she expressed suspicions that there were forces who did want arms sales scrutinised.


“There have been more and more delays. I’m very unhappy there hasn’t been anything for at least eight months,†she said, adding that the “global situation regarding conflict and arms transfers, not least as it affects the Middle East and north Africa, makes it vital to have the committees functioning at the earliest possible dateâ€.

Hilary Benn, the shadow foreign secretary, has also been chasing the whereabouts of the committee, and was told by Commons leader Chris Grayling that the house was not responsible for its formation.

The absence has also been criticised by Andrew Smith, from Campaign Against the Arms Trade, who said the group shared Clwyd’s concerns about the lack of scrutiny of arms exports.

He said the work of the committee under Stanley was “very good and very valuable†and was “needed more than ever†given the government’s decision to continue allowing sales of arms to Saudi Arabia despite concerns about their use in Yemen.

Law firm Leigh Day, representing Campaign Against Arms Trade, is considering legal action against the government unless it suspends all licences permitting UK-produced arms to be sent to Saudi Arabia.

The law firm and campaigners said the Department of Business has failed to reassure them that the government was following its own rules when assessing the risk that the goods exported might be used in contravention of international humanitarian law.

- - - Updated - - -



You may have something there, but you're over egging the pudding. Trump tells a certain group of Americans what they want to hear. These are the same morons who constantly vote for the same conservatives who keep them working three jobs and living in a double-wide trailer. They are the toothless cousin marriers who think they're Christian because they give 10% of their minimum wage to the most Muslim-bashing church they can find. They are the proponents of small government, so much so that one of them tweeted this week that, if the federal government could get his disability sorted out, he'd have enough money to go and support the domestic terrorists occupying a federal building in Oregon. They are the seriously messed up hicks. And all because, well, dammit, 'Murka.

However, while they're noisy, and they are, there is another America emerging, an antidote to the dumbing down process. It's not Hillary either. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are slowly transforming public opinion, but you won't know it because the same corporate interests control the MSM there as here. Watch that space. Here's my guarantee to you. There is no chance of Donald Trump becoming President because those in the know in the GOP know he's unelectable. He will never get the nomination, because he's absolutely too stupid and too full of hubris to recognise who he's pisssing off. He really is the living proof that lack of intellect is no barrier to success when Daddy has money and teaches you how to use other people's money to make some for yourself.

Still think I'm over egging the pudding?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So that time again local elections or the fek all elections, in which analyst will try and predict the next election from it when actually it has zero bearing on the matter.

I expect large swings to Labour TBH.