A Political Thread

[ncurd]

Where this falls down is that Sanders is actually popular with moderates.

On a sample of 51,078, Clinton beats Trump by 47% to 42%. However, Sanders beats Trump by 52% to 40%.

2,927 would vote for Sanders in an election, but not Clinton. Which just goes to show how absurd this political race is.

Of the 2,927 who would vote for Sanders and not Clinton, 35% identify as Republican and 33% as Independent. In other words, Sanders seems to be having a pulling effect on moderates and Republicans that Clinton is not reaching.

You can read and look at a bunch of other infographics which seem to be telling the same thing: Sanders wins over the moderates.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/why-does-sanders-do-better-clinton-against-trump

Except we're not talking about Sanders v Clinton here mate that's done and over with Clinton is the presidential choice. So that data is next to useless.

The questions is what benefits her more for a VP choice Sanders or Kaine. I expect the DNC and Clinton are far better at judging than us. Afterall they are nowhere near as incompetent as our Labour party currently is.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Where this falls down is that Sanders is actually popular with moderates.

On a sample of 51,078, Clinton beats Trump by 47% to 42%. However, Sanders beats Trump by 52% to 40%.

2,927 would vote for Sanders in an election, but not Clinton. Which just goes to show how absurd this political race is.

Of the 2,927 who would vote for Sanders and not Clinton, 35% identify as Republican and 33% as Independent. In other words, Sanders seems to be having a pulling effect on moderates and Republicans that Clinton is not reaching.

You can read and look at a bunch of other infographics which seem to be telling the same thing: Sanders wins over the moderates.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/why-does-sanders-do-better-clinton-against-trump

From what i gather looking into the US elections a little bit more Clinton has alot more draw for the big money Democrat supporters. Which is Bernie's main stumbling block i guess.

Not necessarily; it would mostly depend on their aims.
If their aims are to spread terror in an effort to affect politics; then it'd be terrorism.
If their aims are to commit suicide; then it would suicide.

In those instances it is to cause terror full stop, how could it be considered anything different?

The questions is what benefits her more for a VP choice Sanders or Kaine. I expect the DNC and Clinton are far better at judging than us. Afterall they are nowhere near as incompetent as our Labour party currently is.

TBF that isn't saying much.

 

[Peat]

Was an interesting Stephen Bush article during the primaries in which he asserted that one of Sanders' big problems was he didn't get the ethnic minorities voting for him like Clinton did and that's what did for him.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

FFS now things going down in Japan, been an awful year.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The DNC does not look very united TBH.

God I really dislike these Conventions.

 

[Peat]

The DNC does not look very united TBH.

God I really dislike these Conventions.

Well no. That's because a lot of them aren't Democrats, they're Bernie or Bust. The left's addiction to circular firing squads is enough to make me apolitical sometimes.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

And another terrorist attack in France.

FFS France will be at breaking point really soon.

 

[Which Tyler]

Unlike Hollande; we still shouldn't use the "terrorist" label as a knee-jerk for every attack.

This one seems more likely than Nice or Munich; but I'd still say it's too early to call it a terrorist attack.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Unlike Hollande; we still shouldn't use the "terrorist" label as a knee-jerk for every attack.

This one seems more likely than Nice or Munich; but I'd still say it's too early to call it a terrorist attack.

It was an attack to cause terror. What else could it be.

All eye witness reports are saying it was.

And Munich was a terriost attack

 

[Which Tyler]

To a very, very low standard of the word "terrorist"; the standard that could easily apply to any attack where someone dies.

This is much more likely to have been, but from what I've seen, it's too early to say (which doesn't mean that I've seen all the information).
Neither I nor the German police think that Munich was a terrorist attack; it was murder/suicide.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Well The attackers where shouting Islamic State chants etc according to every report I have seen so I would say this was an act of terror towards France and catholism.

Re Munich I got it mixed up with Bavaria

 

[Which Tyler]

Well The attackers where shouting Islamic State chants etc according to every report I have seen so I would say this was an act of terror towards France and catholism.

Re Munich I got it mixed up with Bavaria

If the BBC are reporting that, then I'm not seeing it; and I don't recall seeing it this morning when I was looking at other sources - but information changes in time; for example BBC are now reporting that ISIS are claiming responsibility now, which they weren't last time I looked at that article. Last time I had looked, it was only Hollande claiming that it was ISIS; but that seems to be his go-to response anyway.

Fair enough.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Arguably, terrorism shouldn't be discussed on a political thread as politics implies democracy, debate, the will of the people...

Pedantry over. But whether terrorism or otherwise the perps do increasingly seem to be targeting the spectacular and are quite happy with a posthumous blaze of glory. Travelling through one of London's main transport hubs every day does not fill me with joy.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm sure Hollande had absolutely no advice from intelligence personnel that it was IS... it must have been an assumption on his part.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm sure Hollande had absolutely no advice from intelligence personnel that it was IS... it must have been an assumption on his part.

Must of been....

 

[ncurd]

TBF unlike Al-Queada I think ISIS claims all responsibility whether they actually involved or not.

Example I believe the Florida Gay Nightclub shootings were done in ISIS' name but I'm fairly certain the guy and group had no contact and it wasn't orcrestrated by them.

The definition of terrorism is a little more complex than most suggest.

"The unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."

The last part is what people forget.

 

[Which Tyler]

I'm sure Hollande had absolutely no advice from intelligence personnel that it was IS... it must have been an assumption on his part.

Are you suggesting that it's not politically convenient for Hollande to label these things as ISIS whether or not they are? I'm not suggesting he makes these claims based on no information; but he makes the claims in order to make political capital if he thinks he can swing it that way.

Nice wasn't ISIS, and almost certainly wasn't terrorism (aim to inflict fear? yes; to make a political point? no); and yet it was "A clear case of terrorism" before they even knew the perp's name. They've since gone and looked really hard to find enough "evidence" to make it plausible for a press (equally motivated to call things terrorism) to buy the ISIS explanation.

All the above IMO, of course.

 

[ncurd]

Must of been....

It wouldn't be the first time that kind of screw up happened.

Remember when the Spanish Prime Minister blamed Eta for these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Are you suggesting that it's not politically convenient for Hollande to label these things as ISIS whether or not they are?
Nice wasn't ISIS, and almost certainly wasn't terrorism (aim to inflict fear? yes; to make a political point? no); and yet it was "A clear case of terrorism" before they even knew the perp's name. They've since gone and looked really hard to find enough "evidence" to make it plausible for a press (equally motivated to call things terrorism) to buy the ISIS explanation.

Yes how convenient for him.

 

[Peat]

Arguably, terrorism shouldn't be discussed on a political thread as politics implies democracy, debate, the will of the people...

Pedantry over. But whether terrorism or otherwise the perps do increasingly seem to be targeting the spectacular and are quite happy with a posthumous blaze of glory. Travelling through one of London's main transport hubs every day does not fill me with joy.

I welcome all forms of pedantry and find it curious that you'd regard politics so narrowly.