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Did anyone seroiusly believe anything else was going to happen?

May and some Tories clearly did hence her attempt in Brussels. The EU could have chosen to play hardball a lot more and yet the Brexiteers will take the opportunity to make them out to be the bad guys even though they had nothing to do with the referendum in 2016.

It's funny how the Brexiteers make out that we're ruled by men in suits in Brussels when the alternative is a shower of selfish greedy knobs in Westminster who only care about themselves.
 
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Article 50 will be revoked now and its back to the drawing board. No way will anyone let a no deal happen.
 
I still can't belive people are genuinely shocked when the EU says a thing and then they actually mean it.
The Leave campaign kept telling us how we'd have the upper hand in any negotiation, and how the EU would fold at every opportunity.
People believed that as well - and then blamed the EU when it was shown to be yet more lies.

May and some Tories clearly did hence her attempt in Brussels.

I don't for a single moment believe that May thought that; she just had to be seen to have tried, even knowing the answer in advance.

Some Tories would have believed it; the same ones who still can't believe that the EU actually stuck to their red lines, that everyone knew would be red lines, and we were in part responsible for establishing as red lines. Probably because our own red lines were drawn in very thin pencil, that wasn't red, and closer resembled a series of dots than an actual line?
 
The other question those that voted leave now have to ask themselves is...

Given how (in)competent our politicians have shown themselves to be - would you rather have Michel Barnier or Liam "easiest deal in history to negotiate" Fox[1] sorted out our trade deals?


[1]Or Dominic "I didn't realise Dover is actually an important shipping terminal" Raab
[1]Or David "My dreams can't come true, I quit" Davis
 
Article 50 will be revoked now and its back to the drawing board. No way will anyone let a no deal happen.
It's a question of who will blink 1st. Issue is EU are saying they are prepared. But Ireland are nowhere near able to survive. Like we depend on trade with the U.K. for so much. And well as not many have pointed out in our meltdown a few years ago the U.K. were in before EU.
Unfortunately it's a few stubborn people on both sides seem intent on a No deal
 
There's no question about who would blink first.
The EU, when negotiating with anyone from outside of the EU, don't even possess eyelids with which to blink.
May on the other hand, can't go 3 days without trying a U-turn
 
Juncker does seem to be a total knob which plays into the hands of Farage and co. Would love to clear him out or do a Farrell on him. At least Tusk and Barnier are a bit more bearable.
 
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I dunno. I think 'Nebulous' is possibly the most flattering term I could think of for the UK government!
 

Too many people think we are plucky Britain who stands up to the world. Over the past 50 or 60 years are economy has slowly been declining. We're apparently the 6th biggest economy, but the gap to those below is closing, not the gap to those above. Our economy is almost completely service based and hence existing just to provide services for those there and so recycling wealth more than actually creating anything new. We actually have very little to trade with that is meaningful except financial services. However Brexiteers still seem to think that everyone wants to queue up and trade with us. Yes people want to come to this country for a better life, but honestly in 50 years they will probably have far better options closer to home.
 
I find the whole trade argument particularly baffling, it's like Brexiteers seem to think we have warehouses full of goods that we can't shift because of the evil EU intentionally screwing us over in trade deals and once we leave we will suddenly begin selling the lot. To sell more you have to both have someone who wants to buy more and then the capacity to produce it, neither are true with Brexit. It also ignores how much of our trade we got largely because we were in the EU, apparently the think we would keep all that.

It's just an insane exercise in fiction. It's like when we whinge about being stuck to the European convention of human rights imposed on us by the EU when actually we practically wrote the damn thing and imposed it on Europe! It was the other bloody way round!

I think that article hit the nail on the head, a lot of Brits hark back to the days of the empire and, when you listen to how they talk about the Commonwealth, it seems some still aren't aware it's gone. People talk about the Commonwealth like it's the empire, that we just go to them demanding more trade to enrich ourselves and they will bow down to our demands like the good little servile colonies they are. It highlights the attitude of complete disregard for the opinions of other countries when you listen to Brexiters talking about how we are going to position ourselves on the world stage.
 
Well I've got no idea what May's plan is now.

No change on redlines so EU won't renegotiate.
Her current plan doesn't have support in the commons.
Even she knows no deal would be a disaster.
Refusing a second vote.

I mean she's hoping the MPs will rally round her last minute but I don't think that will happen.
 
Love the Brits. A great people. North America is great other than the French.
 
I find the whole trade argument particularly baffling, it's like Brexiteers seem to think we have warehouses full of goods that we can't shift because of the evil EU intentionally screwing us over in trade deals and once we leave we will suddenly begin selling the lot. To sell more you have to both have someone who wants to buy more and then the capacity to produce it, neither are true with Brexit. It also ignores how much of our trade we got largely because we were in the EU, apparently the think we would keep all that.

It's just an insane exercise in fiction. It's like when we whinge about being stuck to the European convention of human rights imposed on us by the EU when actually we practically wrote the damn thing and imposed it on Europe! It was the other bloody way round!

I think that article hit the nail on the head, a lot of Brits hark back to the days of the empire and, when you listen to how they talk about the Commonwealth, it seems some still aren't aware it's gone. People talk about the Commonwealth like it's the empire, that we just go to them demanding more trade to enrich ourselves and they will bow down to our demands like the good little servile colonies they are. It highlights the attitude of complete disregard for the opinions of other countries when you listen to Brexiters talking about how we are going to position ourselves on the world stage.

The 'bulldog spirit' and 'British is best' reminds me of the wartime propaganda they used to brainwash soldiers with in WW1 and 2. I'm all for a bit of national pride but we have irresponsible politicians who use this garbage along with siege mentality tactics (the nasty unelected EU policiticans in Brussels) to brainwash people who can't see through it and sadly it wins votes.
 
Lad from some SAS TV show has said, on Twitter, he wants no deal Brexit because hardship will bring the country together and reinstill British values.

What a ********.
 
Well I've got no idea what May's plan is now.

No change on redlines so EU won't renegotiate.
Her current plan doesn't have support in the commons.
Even she knows no deal would be a disaster.
Refusing a second vote.

I mean she's hoping the MPs will rally round her last minute but I don't think that will happen.

As PM, I think she has no option but to rule out a second referendum (at this stage) in the interests of maintaining democratic integrity due to the fact that there are still several options on the table. She talks about how a second ref would compromise our politics but fails to acknowledge that the shenanigans that went on during the campaigning for the first referendum did exactly that.

I think it'll be a process of elimination. Once her deal gets voted down, it'll essentially remove one option and if she refuses to hold a second ref then the pressure will come from her cabinet (there may be a series of resignations) to do a U-turn due to Labour being in a stronger position to file a no confidence motion in the Government. It looks like she's not going to hold a vote on her deal until mid-January which is highly irresponsible IMO given how the clock is ticking.
 
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