A Political Thread

[User1245]

Well researched but I think you continue to display a disconnect from reality, the graphs aren't much to do about anything regarding the continued protests, Floyd's death wasn't Trump's fault and those numbers aren't his achievement.

If you're looking for evidence that these protests are needed, how about the countless videos of police brutality that have done the rounds since the murder? What about Trump showing a total disconnect with the protests, praising the police and failing to condemn the brutality, and then trying to pull a 180 when it wouldn't go away in a fairly crass manner. ("A great day for George Floyd" when nothing substantial has changed) Why should a graph showing a coincidental drop in police killings of black people during the Trump administration take away from that?

In addition to this you've cherry picked your stats

All Police Killings:

View attachment 8231

Police Killings of non-white people:

View attachment 8232

Both trending upward. Focusing on the negative aspects of the protests will allow this to slide under the radar, campaigns for the "Hands up Act" and other such actions are required.

I know you replied about your reasoning for posting those stats but you missed even the point you claim you were trying to prove.

An increase in overall police killings is not evidence for increased police brutality, ie exercising unreasonable force. Every one of those increases could be totally justified against an unarmed/armed suspect trying to kill them or somebody. This is the equivalent of going to one of the protests with an "All Lives Matter" placard. Do that and see if the mob agrees.
The first chart is not even close to relevant to the discussion at all and is very intellectually dishonest.

Second chart is just a slightly filtered down version of the first one with the same issue. It does not prove anything and every one of those increases could have been justified.

Heck, even within the unarmed black killing stats some of those were justified. I know one of those involved a suspects had a gun in the vehicle in a car chase and another was a suspect trying to get the cops gun and was shot in the tussle. Not everybody in there was at home watching TV.

The USA has a violence problem and dumping it all on the police makes no sense.

The BLM group is the primary organisation leading and spreading the "protests" and they are very clear. It's about Blacks and police. The slogan of the protests is "I can't breathe" which is signalling to helpless/unarmed Blacks being killed narrative.

Closer to home, the Abraham Lincoln statue which was vandalised in London had BLM spray painted on it with the names of the unarmed Black people who have been killed by police:

Even @ragerancher already highlighted that the systematic racism narrative in the USA is about it being anti-black, not about the other minorities, primarily because Asians (primarily East Asians) don't fit in their box nicely and therefore blows up the umbrella idea of 'oppressed minorities'.

It's perfectly clear that BLM is the driving force behind this. Corporations who are falling over themselves to virtue signal to put "Black Lives Matter" up somewhere and people are changing their Instagram pics to a black square.

My point on the necessity of the protests doesn't change. I don't support continued violence or looting but equally similar actions have forced change in the past in the States and I agree with the point already made that sometimes you need more than a peaceful protest to invoke change when things have been stagnant for so long.

I give people the benefit of the doubt but this... this is either dangerous ignorance or deliberate support of anarchy and destruction:

I don't support the continued violence or looting BUT...

Sometimes you need more than a peaceful protest...

So virtuous for you to be willing to support the sacrifice people's liveihoods and lives in pursuit of the supposed greater good, all while you sit behind your keyboard.

I'm sure David Dorn's 5 children and 10 grandchildren would love for you to explain this "bigger picture" to them. I'm too disconnected from reality.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-killed-looters-while-trying-protect-n1223386

A Black retired policeman of 38 years who's last moments were broadcast on Facebook Live for trying to stop looters from raiding his friends pawn shop. Will his video go viral or his funeral be boardcast on all the major networks?

People aren't chess pieces to be moved around when certain people decide they want "change".

BLM is a political machine that has NOTHING to do with trying to saving black lives or social justice. Why aren't they celebrating the huge decrease of Blacks being killed by the police? Why didn't they celebrate the record low Black unemployment before the pandemic?

They are worse than a sham and the woke people supporting them are even worse. The data backs this and their actions make it a fact,

 

[Reiser99]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53018020

So is the government admitting without actually saying it, that whether we get a deal or not it will harm businesses and the economy?

That's the only conclusion I can reach, because I thought we were freeing up the British economy to benefit from trade with the rest of the world. Not really seeing those benefits appear.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53018020

So is the government admitting without actually saying it, that whether we get a deal or not it will harm businesses and the economy?

That's the only conclusion I can reach, because I thought we were freeing up the British economy to benefit from trade with the rest of the world. Not really seeing those benefits appear.

To be fair, that's exactly the approach that JRM was advocating in early 2019 (in that channel 4 interview anyway)

 

[Reiser99]

To be fair, that's exactly the approach that JRM was advocating in early 2019 (in that channel 4 interview anyway)

Problem is I imagine he was advocating both sides. Unless I've missed something this seems to be purely from the British side and the E.U will still be committed to checking and taxing British exports. Even if they are considering similar I doubt they will give it to us for free.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

That's a very good question

I'll have a stab at it:

1. The quality of both film and and audio. As I've said before that's massively more powerful than just reading about something.

2. The deliberate and prolonged nature of the cops actions. This wasn't a fight that escalated out of control or a quick shooting, but many minutes of horrific and unnecessary suffering before a needless death. I think this is one of the big reasons.

3. It doesn't get much more powerful than cops ignoring someone telling them they can't breathe because of their actions. That's going to anger a lot of people.

4. America's divided. It always has been, but Trump's only made things worse. A tinderbox waiting for a match, exacerbated by....

5. COVID. A lot of people have lost jobs / are angry and frustrated / have time on their hands.

 

[ncurd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53018020

So is the government admitting without actually saying it, that whether we get a deal or not it will harm businesses and the economy?

That's the only conclusion I can reach, because I thought we were freeing up the British economy to benefit from trade with the rest of the world. Not really seeing those benefits appear.

It sounds like to me the idea is we'll formally leave leave as in transition period ended. But we sort of agree to a names thing thats actually the same thing whilst we actually form an agreement....

Why do I get feeling this will be forever punted along because no one can admit this was a stupid idea in the first place?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It's been confirmed the economy shrank by 20% in April. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53019360

 

[General Melchett]

It's been confirmed the economy shrank by 20% in April. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53019360

I am perplexed as to why the UK can have suffered the most damage economically AND have the highest number of COVID related deaths in Europe. It's the worst of both worlds and pretty much confirms major failings and crisis mismanagement within the Government.

 

[Reiser99]

I am perplexed as to why the UK can have suffered the most damage economically AND have the highest number of COVID related deaths in Europe. It's the worst of both worlds and pretty much confirms major failings and crisis mismanagement within the Government.

First of all Rishi Sunak has said we are in line with most other countries...
Second we can't compare deaths yet until this is all over according to Boris, even though we did exactly that when Italy and Spain had more deaths.

I've said it for a while now this government tries to equate not being the worst (which is hard to do with these economic figures) with being good. They consistently use phrases such as we are similar or we've done more/better than other countries as though it makes it acceptable. Just because your not the worst doesn't mean you're not ****. I wonder how rugby/football clubs who come second from bottom would do if they told their fans that they've had a good year as other teams were worse.

 

[Reiser99]

It sounds like to me the idea is we'll formally leave leave as in transition period ended. But we sort of agree to a names thing thats actually the same thing whilst we actually form an agreement....

Why do I get feeling this will be forever punted along because no one can admit this was a stupid idea in the first place?

Problem is this then means the E.U can ask more as we still need them and then we're in a real danger of having to sign up to the single market rules again in some form with absolutely no say on how it runs or changes and then we really would be the vassal state that many leave campaigners said we were. I don't like no deal at all, but right now it seems we could well be stuck between the worst case scenario for remainers and the worst case scenario for leavers.

 

[ncurd]

Problem is this then means the E.U can ask more as we still need them and then we're in a real danger of having to sign up to the single market rules again in some form with absolutely no say on how it runs or changes and then we really would be the vassal state that many leave campaigners said we were. I don't like no deal at all, but right now it seems we could well be stuck between the worst case scenario for remainers and the worst case scenario for leavers.

There is a huge amount irony that we'll essentially be a vassal state (although not strictly true just in regards to the single market) and honestly at this stage I would find it hilarious if Johnson and co. did that then tried to sell it to as the real 'no deal Brexit' and 'we can pull out of this any time we like' because you know what I think they might just do that....

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Obvs no-one in the UK seems to give a crap about China but hey ho,.not like ignoring/appeasing an authoritarian militant government that consistently expands it's borders and puts it's its own citizens in concentration camps every ended badly before eh



https://www.facebook.com/143666524748/posts/10159165205359749/

 

[Reiser99]

You know the theory of how there are roughly large wars every 100 or so years, because that's when the generations in charge haven't suffered through them. We are due one soon.

 

[General Melchett]

Obvs no-one in the UK seems to give a crap about China but hey ho,.not like ignoring/appeasing an authoritarian militant government that consistently expands it's borders and puts it's its own citizens in concentration camps every ended badly before eh



https://www.facebook.com/143666524748/posts/10159165205359749/

Have you not realised that British people only care about what the media and the likes of Cummings want them to care about? You should forward that link to the media outlets who deemed it newsworthy to write about Starmer and Jimmy Saville's case.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Second we can't compare deaths yet until this is all over according to Boris, even though we did exactly that when Italy and Spain had more deaths.

Exactly. If our numbers had been excellent he'd have been shouting it from the roof tops smothered in union flags and maximising political capital.

Its as near as you'll to get to an admission of failure from him.

 

[Gavin]

Problem is this then means the E.U can ask more as we still need them and then we're in a real danger of having to sign up to the single market rules again in some form with absolutely no say on how it runs or changes and then we really would be the vassal state that many leave campaigners said we were. I don't like no deal at all, but right now it seems we could well be stuck between the worst case scenario for remainers and the worst case scenario for leavers.

The UK will need to sign up to the single market and customs union in order to preserve the Good Friday Agreement - but this is only if they want Northern Ireland to remain exactly aligned to Great Britain.

If they do not want to sign up to both then Northern Ireland will have to be different in order to preserve the Good Friday Agreement (as per the agreement Boris Johnson signed last December).

Over the past week I noticed that Border Force and HMRC have advertised four new jobs in Belfast with multiple people needed per job. In addition to that Border Force have advertised numerous jobs for the points of entry to Great Britain.

The best situation for the UK at this moment would be the deal Boris signed, even though it is worse than the deal May signed, and even worse than remaining in the EU.

Moving away from Brexit I see there is a lot of 'gammon' annoyed at the taking down of the Fawlty Towers episode 'Don't mention the War'. Many are misunderstanding why it has been taken down from UKTV and a few other streaming services.

From right-wing media it portrays the decision as a result of the protests and is being used to enflame the hatred on both sides, but not telling the truth - namely the services had been streaming an 'unedited' version whereas all others had been showing an 'edited' version which removed offensive racial slurs and was backed by John Cleese because of the need to remove them.

This is one of the scenes which was removed from the original version and was being shown on UKTV until it's removal:

Spoiler: *warning offensive material

All edited episodes of 'Don't mention the War' do not have this scene.

 

[General Melchett]

I wouldn't want to be charged with the task of editing Roy Chubby Brown's DVDs.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

John Cleese hasn't commented on Fawlty Towers, but he has wondered about the ancient Greeks, Romans and Issac Newton.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnCleese?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

EDIT. He has now...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/john-cleese-slams-stupid-decision-22181183

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I give people the benefit of the doubt but this... this is either dangerous ignorance or deliberate support of anarchy and destruction:

I don't support the continued violence or looting BUT...

Sometimes you need more than a peaceful protest...

So virtuous for you to be willing to support the sacrifice people's liveihoods and lives in pursuit of the supposed greater good, all while you sit behind your keyboard.

I'm sure David Dorn's 5 children and 10 grandchildren would love for you to explain this "bigger picture" to them. I'm too disconnected from reality.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-killed-looters-while-trying-protect-n1223386

A Black retired policeman of 38 years who's last moments were broadcast on Facebook Live for trying to stop looters from raiding his friends pawn shop. Will his video go viral or his funeral be boardcast on all the major networks?

People aren't chess pieces to be moved around when certain people decide they want "change".

BLM is a political machine that has NOTHING to do with trying to saving black lives or social justice. Why aren't they celebrating the huge decrease of Blacks being killed by the police? Why didn't they celebrate the record low Black unemployment before the pandemic?

They are worse than a sham and the woke people supporting them are even worse. The data backs this and their actions make it a fact,

I've cut the first half of your post, I've covered what I think, you're so convinced this is some sort of underhanded political movement, I don't.

As for this, yeah it's horrendous and the killers should be found and punished. But it's the result of backing minorities into a corner for as long as the country has existed. The looters pulled the trigger but the gun was loaded by years of racial profiling and being provided with less opportunity than anyone in the "white" neighborhoods 15 minutes away. You're a South African telling an Irishman that this violence is wrong and totally the fault of the looters when in both of our recent histories the oppressed needed to fight to get the attention of their oppressors before using more peaceful means to negotiate equality, give me a break.

The last two paragraphs show your true colours in my opinion. You're asking a movement seeking equality to celebrate improvement while they're still treated worse than white people? I don't see too many people celebrating when they reach mile 6 of a marathon.

 

[McTallshort]

The UK will need to sign up to the single market and customs union in order to preserve the Good Friday Agreement - but this is only if they want Northern Ireland to remain exactly aligned to Great Britain.

If they do not want to sign up to both then Northern Ireland will have to be different in order to preserve the Good Friday Agreement (as per the agreement Boris Johnson signed last December).

Over the past week I noticed that Border Force and HMRC have advertised four new jobs in Belfast with multiple people needed per job. In addition to that Border Force have advertised numerous jobs for the points of entry to Great Britain.

The best situation for the UK at this moment would be the deal Boris signed, even though it is worse than the deal May signed, and even worse than remaining in the EU.

Moving away from Brexit I see there is a lot of 'gammon' annoyed at the taking down of the Fawlty Towers episode 'Don't mention the War'. Many are misunderstanding why it has been taken down from UKTV and a few other streaming services.

From right-wing media it portrays the decision as a result of the protests and is being used to enflame the hatred on both sides, but not telling the truth - namely the services had been streaming an 'unedited' version whereas all others had been showing an 'edited' version which removed offensive racial slurs and was backed by John Cleese because of the need to remove them.

This is one of the scenes which was removed from the original version and was being shown on UKTV until it's removal:

Spoiler: *warning offensive material

All edited episodes of 'Don't mention the War' do not have this scene.

Which happens to be a very funny scene about a stupid, insensitive man suffering from concussion being very stupid and insensitive towards some Germans.