Or do we want a single thread for all the rumours around the new PGA? (eg hybrid contracts, ringfencing at Prem2, re-introduction of Wasps into Prem2 etc)
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Academy player draft?
- Thread starter Which Tyler
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I hate that idea tbh. I appreciate the reasoning behind it, but part of the beauty of team sport to me are the stories of journies from 11 year old to pro at the same club, this means we will have less of that. Fundamentally, it penalises teams for going out and finding lots of talent
Honestly couldn't hate the idea more,
Would genuinely put me off the sport a bit
Would genuinely put me off the sport a bit
My instinct is to hate it with a burning passion.
But the devil's going to be in the details.
We shouldn't force players to move (but then, we probably also shouldn't force them into 1 club because of where they go to university - like the current catchment areas).
I like that clubs can "protect" some players from the draft - will be interesting to see how that's worked out in detail.
I can't disagree that our youth development needs a bit of an overhaul - though I'd be concentrating on the transition from U20 to senior - but this might do that, depending on the definition of "academy" which has been open to... interpretation for a while (I think 25 is the current oldest allowable to be excused from the senior salary cap into the academy, and there's no requirement for the player to be home grown).
Of course, if 1 club, through luck of the draw, has 2 highly promising SHs coming through their system, I'd rather one of them moved to a club without one, and fulfilled their potential, rather than the current system, which is most likely to convert one of them to playing a different position because it suits the club rather than the player.
I still hate it though.
But the devil's going to be in the details.
We shouldn't force players to move (but then, we probably also shouldn't force them into 1 club because of where they go to university - like the current catchment areas).
I like that clubs can "protect" some players from the draft - will be interesting to see how that's worked out in detail.
I can't disagree that our youth development needs a bit of an overhaul - though I'd be concentrating on the transition from U20 to senior - but this might do that, depending on the definition of "academy" which has been open to... interpretation for a while (I think 25 is the current oldest allowable to be excused from the senior salary cap into the academy, and there's no requirement for the player to be home grown).
Of course, if 1 club, through luck of the draw, has 2 highly promising SHs coming through their system, I'd rather one of them moved to a club without one, and fulfilled their potential, rather than the current system, which is most likely to convert one of them to playing a different position because it suits the club rather than the player.
I still hate it though.
It could potentially stop great stories like Courtney Lawes.
Imagination the pain of being good enough to get into the Saints academy and later being sent to Leicester. I'd rather cut my nuts off with a rusty spoon.
Imagination the pain of being good enough to get into the Saints academy and later being sent to Leicester. I'd rather cut my nuts off with a rusty spoon.
So just get rid of the incentive to develop academy players? Teams should be encouraged to bring players through with salary cap breaks but this will cause them to just pass the buck to schools or universities.
Edit: I guess it all depends on how many players each club is allowed to keep each year.
Edit: I guess it all depends on how many players each club is allowed to keep each year.
Again rugby is just killing itself bit by bit.
Terrible idea and really defeats the home grown talent that most clubs have as a mantra.
Terrible idea and really defeats the home grown talent that most clubs have as a mantra.
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.....i really should just keep this to myself
depending how its done i like the idea of a draft and kind of hope we see something brought into super rugby.
It works great in the AFL on several front. primary reason obviously gives teams a real start at a reset after each season so it gve the fans of bottom teams a glimpse of hope things will be better the next year...and often do
it also give teams something to hype in the off season to keep interest up
but as i say it needs to be done right.
So in the AFL a player still needs to agree to the move so they would only put themselves into the draft if theyre happy to go somewhere else, they have the options to not go into the draft and take up a training or part time contract if they want to stay.
Ultimately clubs wont want to drag players away from "home" as theyre just going to be unhappy and leave as soon as they can which would be wasted effort
depending how its done i like the idea of a draft and kind of hope we see something brought into super rugby.
It works great in the AFL on several front. primary reason obviously gives teams a real start at a reset after each season so it gve the fans of bottom teams a glimpse of hope things will be better the next year...and often do
it also give teams something to hype in the off season to keep interest up
but as i say it needs to be done right.
So in the AFL a player still needs to agree to the move so they would only put themselves into the draft if theyre happy to go somewhere else, they have the options to not go into the draft and take up a training or part time contract if they want to stay.
Ultimately clubs wont want to drag players away from "home" as theyre just going to be unhappy and leave as soon as they can which would be wasted effort
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Tbh the prem is so different to Super Rugby in terms of culture imo - could see it working for you guys given your totally different system
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Rewind 20 years where most players stayed at one club their whole careers and I'd hate this idea.
But the world's changed and the romantic one club man who came up from local minis is disappearing - just as it largely did in football when the big money came in. Might not like it but it's the reality and we need to remember that home grown talent is already being limited by the huge number of transfers between clubs (all do it) as well as the ready made players coming in from overseas. The devil will be in the detail but if the outcome is a more equitable split of talent and we get more game time into young players reducing the number of 'professional trainers' I can, through slightly gritted depth, support it.
But the world's changed and the romantic one club man who came up from local minis is disappearing - just as it largely did in football when the big money came in. Might not like it but it's the reality and we need to remember that home grown talent is already being limited by the huge number of transfers between clubs (all do it) as well as the ready made players coming in from overseas. The devil will be in the detail but if the outcome is a more equitable split of talent and we get more game time into young players reducing the number of 'professional trainers' I can, through slightly gritted depth, support it.
All depends on how many players a club can keep
According to that Prem clubs will get to keep a select amount of players per year of their own academy the rest go into a draft.
So say clubs can keep let's say IDK 5-7 Players that's prob realistically the amount most clubs would want anyway.
It means their would be a pool of (Roughly lets' say that each year 15 players "Graduate") 100-120 players that teams could pick from to fill in other areas.
But the flaw in this argument is that these players become free agents in a couple years anyway.
If they want more game time to be solved then make a proper dedicated A league that runs along the season and then have a either England A team or potentially a 3rd England team that is picked from it. That would slove the game time issue
Tigers could for example easily have a A team of
1. Van Wyk, 2. Vanes, 3. Hurd
4. L.Chessum, 5. T.Manz
6. Carnduff, 7. Ilione, 8. Koroiyadi
9. Edwards, 10. Wilkinson
12. Woodward, 13. Cusick
11. Browning, 14. Simmons, 15. Gourlay
16. Theobald-Thomas, 17. Miell, 18. Hoyt
19. Carmichael, 20. J.Manz,
21. Allen, 22. Meredith, 23. Myall
IF game time is the big issue that is such an easy fix and it's one we actually used to have it was just poorly looked after and managed.
According to that Prem clubs will get to keep a select amount of players per year of their own academy the rest go into a draft.
So say clubs can keep let's say IDK 5-7 Players that's prob realistically the amount most clubs would want anyway.
It means their would be a pool of (Roughly lets' say that each year 15 players "Graduate") 100-120 players that teams could pick from to fill in other areas.
But the flaw in this argument is that these players become free agents in a couple years anyway.
If they want more game time to be solved then make a proper dedicated A league that runs along the season and then have a either England A team or potentially a 3rd England team that is picked from it. That would slove the game time issue
Tigers could for example easily have a A team of
1. Van Wyk, 2. Vanes, 3. Hurd
4. L.Chessum, 5. T.Manz
6. Carnduff, 7. Ilione, 8. Koroiyadi
9. Edwards, 10. Wilkinson
12. Woodward, 13. Cusick
11. Browning, 14. Simmons, 15. Gourlay
16. Theobald-Thomas, 17. Miell, 18. Hoyt
19. Carmichael, 20. J.Manz,
21. Allen, 22. Meredith, 23. Myall
IF game time is the big issue that is such an easy fix and it's one we actually used to have it was just poorly looked after and managed.
I'm not sure this is the solution, but I think the academy system should be linked to the universities. So that becomes the A league. It's got a ready made 'young' fan base who most probably like drinking and a good day out.
I'm sure there are reasons why this wouldn't work but I like this idea.
I'm sure there are reasons why this wouldn't work but I like this idea.
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So i actually really like a draft system and think it works really well in the US. However, there league has had vast amount of time to adjust to it and make it work. Plus their colleges are as big/if not bigger than their teams so players are virtually superstars already before turning "Pro".
the only way it could work in the Prem is if you did away with academies all together and had players go to Uni/Champ clubs/Nat 1/2 etc and then those who produced were given grant for producing players...
Still don't think it would overall work however.
the only way it could work in the Prem is if you did away with academies all together and had players go to Uni/Champ clubs/Nat 1/2 etc and then those who produced were given grant for producing players...
Still don't think it would overall work however.
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Exactly you hear about massive games of Collage football in america, there is nothing comparible in rugby at all. Prem is failing and a step down is not given the time of day.
So not sure it could work for us(in the same wY as you described) with players coming in as superstars already. Only platform we have for that is U20s
Also there's a huge mismatch between where nfl players are born and raised to where nfl teams actually are. Teams would essentially go to scout in a few parts of the country to bring players in.
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I'm not sure if this would work for England, however I have advocated for this in Wales for years.
There are currently 4.5 academies in Wales, who mainly base around feeder clubs and preferred clubs.
Wales could easily transition this to 8 Welsh premiership academies, attached to 8 Welsh prem clubs. The academies dont cost too much, and the final year players can play prem rugby for development.
Each prem club can allocate 1 player to regional rugby before the draft, allowing for 2 players per region to become 'home contracts'
At 20, every eligible player can compete in a combine testing week, and a draft can occur 4 weeks later.
Each year approximately 40 players enter the draft (inc the 8 regional contracted players already allocated). Teams can swap draft picks, or even sell draft picks, including using current players in a swap.
I'm all for positive risk at this stage, because rugby as a global game is dying, numbers and finances in the UK are dropping across the board, and world rugby refuse to make changes for good, and the clubs refuse to do anything but money grub and wrestle for power.
It's interesting to see English club rugby get the ramifications for siding with the French club power grab of European rugby.
There are currently 4.5 academies in Wales, who mainly base around feeder clubs and preferred clubs.
Wales could easily transition this to 8 Welsh premiership academies, attached to 8 Welsh prem clubs. The academies dont cost too much, and the final year players can play prem rugby for development.
Each prem club can allocate 1 player to regional rugby before the draft, allowing for 2 players per region to become 'home contracts'
At 20, every eligible player can compete in a combine testing week, and a draft can occur 4 weeks later.
Each year approximately 40 players enter the draft (inc the 8 regional contracted players already allocated). Teams can swap draft picks, or even sell draft picks, including using current players in a swap.
I'm all for positive risk at this stage, because rugby as a global game is dying, numbers and finances in the UK are dropping across the board, and world rugby refuse to make changes for good, and the clubs refuse to do anything but money grub and wrestle for power.
It's interesting to see English club rugby get the ramifications for siding with the French club power grab of European rugby.
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Like Super Rugby, Wales' club system is not even really a club system - they are teams representing a broad area, who (as far as I am aware) a good chunk of people don't feel any emotional attachment too anyway
Which is part of the problem.
Parochialism is killing professional rugby in England and Wales.
There is just not the money available to run local clubs at the scale needed as most money is in football.
In France, the split is more equal, just look at Clermont-Ferrand Foot and the rugby finances, so it is easier to run the club game properly.
I hope Nigel Walker'splan for the Welsh development competition is successful, as this will provide exactly what is being suggested above and will give Wales a proper feeder system at last.
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Bang on. Sadly I'm one of them, and also one who has benefitted the most.
When regionalism started I wasnt a fan, I was young and voiceless and told I didnt know anything and this was the future.
6 years later Welsh regions under performed with squads if massive talent and I was told it was a decade plan before fruition. At 10 years old I was told to be a bit more patient, 1 region had gone under, their fans told to follow Cardiff, they refused, and Cardiff fans refused them.
Here we are 20 years later and Cardiff are no longer a region, they are officially Cardiff rugby again, and yet we see ravaged squads and no future without the WRU allowing a big investor taking over! We had a 3 month battle with the WRU to sign a SA fly half, which btw is the only fly half we have. The WRU would see us 10 less!
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