All Blacks vs Wallabies, August 7th 2010, Fifth Tri Nations Test

[Haysie]

And that's why he was picked as captain. He would have also been briefed not to say ANYTHING about the refereeing other than it was good.

 

[Sam Owen]

And that's why he was picked as captain. He would have also been briefed not to say ANYTHING about the refereeing other than it was good.

Yeah your right, not sure about that being the reason why he was the captain. It makes me wonder why the 'Canes didnt say anything about Paul Marks performance (for not going to the TMO) and yet someone from somewhere got Cobus Wessels performance under review, I mean the 'Canes didnt do that, they wernt moaning like what happened to Wessels.

 

[smartcooky]

Yeah your right, not sure about that being the reason why he was the captain. It makes me wonder why the 'Canes didnt say anything about Paul Marks performance (which was a clearly a case for the TMO) and yet someone from somewhere got Cobus Wessels performance under review, I mean the 'Canes didnt do that, they wernt moaning like what happened to Wessels.

However, you may have noticed that Paul Marks is no longer on the IRB Elite Referees Panel. This incident was among a number of critical errors that led to him being dropped. Stu Dickinson is the only Australian on the IRB Elite panel now, and even his place is at risk after the raft of critical errors he made at San Siro last year.

He wasn't appointed to a 6N match for the first time since 2000, and hasn't been given a 3N match for the first time since 1999. The only match he has had since San Siro is Argentina v France, an appointment that would test his scrum management, which was his weakness.

 

[Sam Owen]

Oh true I didnt really notice Paul Marks was missing, mind you I dont really look out for reffs. I dont think he shouldve lost his job though maybe a suspension or demotion for awhile but not completely gone, oh well.

 

[squirrel]

could he have referred that it to the tmo,i thought it had to be ingoal for it to be referred?

 

[Sam Owen]

True, good point. Maybe if Waldrom claimed a try to the reff it would've gone to TMO, come to think about it maybe Waldrom knocked it on after all and thats why he didnt bother to make a claim. Who knows, history now anyway.

 

[Shaggy]

For those that think the Refs favour the All Blacks

I found this article on the Sydney Morning Herald website an interesting take on the All Black cheating/Refs favouring the All Blacks issue.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...urageous-is-not-a-victory-20100809-11u2d.html

 

[Sam Owen]

Yeah thanks Shaggy good read made a lot of sense as to whats going on IMO.

 

[squirrel]

yeah i will say though that i havnt seen spiro write one bad article on the all blacks in the last ten years,he is the polar opposite of dwyer, somewhere between those two the truth exists,also check out wayne smiths one on the australian website

 

[Shaggy]

yeah i will say though that i havnt seen spiro write one bad article on the all blacks in the last ten years,he is the polar opposite of dwyer, somewhere between those two the truth exists,also check out wayne smiths one on the australian website

yeah i will say though that i havnt seen spiro write one bad article on the all blacks in the last ten years,he is the polar opposite of dwyer, somewhere between those two the truth exists,also check out wayne smiths one on the australian website

I hear what you are saying squirrel - it's hard to get unbiased media reports, which is why I thought i'd check out the Australian sites as well as the New Zealand ones.

Didn't really see Spiro's article as pro AB's though, more that the refereeing style was explained, and that infringements on both sides that did not effect the play went unpenalised.

I did read the article that you suggested, I think it's this one http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...their-old-tricks/story-e6frg7mf-1225902751377

I think of the two main points, yes, most people agree that Woodcock should have been sin binned (even in the NZ media), as for the brinksmanship, it's always been part of the game - George Gregan and Sean Fitzpatrick were both masters of it.

Extensive analysis of the opposition is carried out prematch, so why isn't it ok to carry out the same on the ref, and adapt your game accordingly.

Mr Smith also points out that Robbie Deans also sent Mr Kaplan a message with his comment about using the Yellow card - Is this not also trying to influence the Ref?

To me it's just part of the game.

 

[squirrel]

yeah fair point shag man,i just hate that zavos prick he was a big george gregan hater

 

[Shaggy]

yeah fair point shag man,i just hate that zavos prick he was a big george gregan hater

Hehe,no doubt, I haven't read a lot of his stuff,... I must admit George was a player I loved to hate after what he did to our Jeff with that tackle ... HAHA ... great player though

 

[smartcooky]

could he have referred that it to the tmo,i thought it had to be ingoal for it to be referred?

The protocol says, "in the act of scoring a possible try".

Remember the RWC in 2007, and Mark Cueto's possible try but for the foot in touch. The foot in touch was outside the in-goal, but it was still referred to the TMO, (Stu Dickinson)

 

[Nubiwan]

Firstly, you didn't read what I said. Referees make the panel based on OBJECTIVE reporting, not SUBJECTVE reporting. Do you understand the difference?


Secondly, there is no way that an international referee will compromise his performance in order to impress an assessor. That is just rubbish. All they would succeed in doing is to lessen their chances of selection. If the cards they have issued are as dubious and as unwarranted as you are suggesting, then they will have a lot of difficulty justifying the issuing of those cards to their assessors.

OK Then. No refs in the world have egos. You have me convinced. My point was the ref ruined a perfectly decent game instead of using common sense to effectively end the competition on the field. He said as much to the captain before dismissing the player. Why bother? Could have said look lads grow up and get back 10. Just try and convinve me his ego was not involved.

I'm personally more concerned about good rugby than any 4kin ref or IRB panel. I used the (impress the panel) phrase as a figure of speech if not to try and understand the menatality of his decsion making. We're not playing tiddly 4kin winks.

 

[Nubiwan]

I found this article on the Sydney Morning Herald website an interesting take on the All Black cheating/Refs favouring the All Blacks issue.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...urageous-is-not-a-victory-20100809-11u2d.html

A good summary. Refereeing decisions aside, the Wallabies had no idea how to make good use of their possession. NZ defence was simply superb. Scrum was more powerful. Thought it was a decent contest between Pocock and McCaw as well. Great match.

 

[smartcooky]

OK Then. No refs in the world have egos

No. Referees have do ego's just like any other human beings, but the process of selection and promotion of referees up the ranks ensures that those who have big ego's that are likely to affect their performances, are weeded out.

Here is an excerpt from an article at the SAReferees website that puts things in perspective (I have put a link to the whole article at the end of the post)

Registered referees in the Six Nations and Tri-Nations countries number 54,486, according to the IRB's census. Many, many more than that referee but those are the registered ones which form the several layers of refereeing throughout the world. Of those 54,486, 19 get to the top panel. That is one in just over three thousand.

The chances of a referee with a big fat ego having a long career as an Elite Referee are very tiny indeed. When one does manage to get through (for example, Matt Goddard), he soon gets the chop, or ends up retiring with a "back injury".



http://www.sareferees.co.za/news/ref_news/2573280.htm

 

[madflyhalf]

I am the only one to think that TW deserved not a YC, but a red one?

A player is getting up, trying to clear away from a ruck, ball was already clear to play, someone passing near hits this player in the back (he can't even see), only with his shoulder, trying to hurt him and rule him out of the match.

****, I don't care 'bout Tony Woodcock previous fairplay in his career, this is a foul play, worst than all the spear tackles blowed before, this is a useless and stupid foul, he didn't deserve to stay on the pitch anymore.

Refs should use red cards sometimes!
Labuchagne got it in 2002 for a late charge, Mitchell got it for stupid foul (YC+YC even if first yellow was crap), why NZers didn't get cards?
Why the have been penalised 45 times (at least 6 professional fouls) in this 3N and didn't even have a card?

Where's the difference between the target of Woodcock foul and Labuschagne one?

Saia Fainga'a is not a multi-milionaire-talented-amazing-kicking-and-young flyhalf?

Home team vs. away team? You can't give cards to ABs at their home?

Danny Care vs. Marcus Horan in 2009? (C. Joubert binned Care!) Are SA referees trained in the same way?

 

[squirrel]

yeah mate it was foul and filthy

 

[smartcooky]

I am the only one to think that TW deserved not a YC, but a red one?

A player is getting up, trying to clear away from a ruck, ball was already clear to play, someone passing near hits this player in the back (he can't even see), only with his shoulder, trying to hurt him and rule him out of the match.

IMO, Woodcock's foul wasn't worth a Red Card. Yellow card yes.

Also, note that Fa'inga had been deliberately getting himself in the way on the NZ side of the ruck and tackle for the whole game. Note also that after Woodcock's fould play, Fa'ainga stopped doing this.

Home team vs. away team? You can't give cards to ABs at their home?

Which team is at home is not a consideration when players get cards.

Why the have been penalised 45 times (at least 6 professional fouls) in this 3N and didn't even have a card?

Two things to say to this.

First, the All Blacks have been on the front foot for all their games so far. Statistically, the team going backwards and under pressure is more likely to commit professional fouls, and it has been South Africa and Australia who have been under the most pressure.


Second, Owen Franks was yellow carded v Australia, so your statement is factually incorrect anyway

 

[admartian]

I'm getting drunk from all the whining.