All time xv

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I don't think we'll find many disagreeing with Lomu, so I guess they'd say BOD over Gerber and Blanco over Cullen.

Yea that's what I was meaning lol. I think many French would argue for Blanco and the Irish would definitely argue for BOD. Surely no one would disagree over Lomu...

I'd be surprised to find many of them even know who Danie Gerber is, let alone seen him play. You could also argue Sella as a centre. It's not as if South African games were easy to watch from Europe at the time. We couldn't even play south africa as pumas at the time (we played as South America).
I'd rate BOD as nothing short of phenomenal, but i'd still pick Gerber. Maybe it's me, but BOD really shone in Europe. I don't think he made a lasting dent in people from the SH. The best centres at BODs time were in the SH and they seldomly faced each other, with mixed results.
Gerber's story is quite an appealing one. He was part of a team that wasn't allowed to play (for whatever reason, that's another matter) and he was arguably the best there. That kinda adds to the myth i suppose.

Gerber was indeed an amazing player, and is probably one of the most under-appreciated players in history imo, if not THE most, as much of the rugby public know next to nothing about him yet he is one of the greatest stars the game has seen.
Gerber vs O'Driscoll was the toughest pick in my XV and I actually did have Gerber initially. I do think that from a pure rugby playing point of view he is greater than O'Driscoll..... Gerber's abilities with the ball in hand were phenomenal and he certainly stood out more from his contemporaries than O'Driscoll did. O'Driscoll was a great player too though and probably had a better skill-set, but he was nowhere near as dangerous as Gerber.
I ended up going with O'Driscoll for reasons beyond what he could do on the field..... when you look at his long list of accomplishments and what he achieved in the game, for both club and country, and the impact that he made on Irish rugby and rugby in general, IMO it sets him out as more of a great.
It is a really tough call though... under better circumstances Gerber could probably have achieved just as much as O'Driscoll....... I'm happy either way really.

If I were to pick my non-negotiables for the All-Time XV they would be: Meads, McCaw, Edwards, Carter and Lomu.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

That's because they switch their 6s and 7s around, don't they? 6 is openside in South Africa.

Correct.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

If I were to pick my non-negotiables for the All-Time XV they would be: Meads, McCaw, Edwards, Carter and Lomu.

I am not going to argue Lomu (i agree) nor McCaw (fear of forum/internet collapsing) but i can think of a couple of locks, SHs and FHs that could give them a run for their money.
Funny enough, my toughest pick would probably be SH between Joost or George Gregan!

 

[JJFlash]

Blanco wouldn't be on my list, certainly not ahead of Cullen and JPR.
Gerber's rather difficult to evaluate as (according to Wiki) he only played 24 Tests.
Undoubtedly a fine player, but with the likes of Frank Bunce, Walter Little, (curiously not mentioned above!), O'Driscoll, Sella and the great Mike Gibson, Gerber is among the also-rans!
McCaw? Difficult to leave out! I'd prefer Michael Jones, Jean-Pierre Rives and Peter Winterbottom.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

BOD, Lomu and Carter would be my non negotiable picks. Trying to remain as unbiased as possible I think the way BOD transformed throughout his career was remarkable. He started out as an attacking threat and quickly became the best attacking 13 in world rugby doing some of his best stuff outside the less than remarkable creative force that was Ronan O'Gara and when the game evolved to the point where someone who was slowing down like him didn't have the size to be a lethal runner with the ball he quickly became a much better passer and elite defender (the overlap of the two around '09 when he should have won player of the year was a joy to behold) not to mention his prowess at the breakdown. Kicking was really the only thing he didn't do to a world class level but along with Dan Carter he's the most complete player I've ever seen. I've only seen Gerber through YouTube highlights but I haven't heard enough about his game outside of the world class attack to make me believe he could rival O'Driscoll and then there's the fact that he played very few test matches with even less being against quality opposition.

I don't think any Irish player is going to have a shout outside of the centre with Mike Gibson definitely having a shout for 12, Wood may have had a shout had he not been riddled by injuries.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I was always of the opinion that, besides being incredibly talented, one of the reasons BOD really shone was because he had an outstanding 12 besides him (sometimes they switched, i know). Even thou most people would rate him as world class i still don't think D'Arcy gets the credit he deserves.

 

[petite]

come on guys colin meads? the guy would not play now! 192 mts . 100 kg i know he is a leyend tougth guy etc.
of course he could play now with the modern trayning etc. but i dont think he could complete as an international lock maybe as a nbr 8
the same goes for most of the selects
i was recently watching old hakas and found one from 1973. man those guys looked so skinny the woudnt be able to play now! no way! maybe some of them could with the modern tayning nutrition, but most wont .
there must be a select for the profesional era and another for the amateur otherwise it makes no sense

 

[petite]

 

[petite]

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

come on guys colin meads? the guy would not play now! 192 mts . 100 kg i know he is a leyend tougth guy etc.
of course he could play now with the modern trayning etc. but i dont think he could complete as an international lock maybe as a nbr 8
the same goes for most of the selects
i was recently watching old hakas and found one from 1973. man those guys looked so skinny the woudnt be able to play now! no way! maybe some of them could with the modern tayning nutrition, but most wont .
there must be a select for the profesional era and another for the amateur otherwise it makes no sense

We're not picking the best players of all time, we're picking the greatest. There is a big difference.
What Colin Meads would be like nowadays is irrelevant. What matters is how he compared to his compatriots and what he achieved in his time. He was a giant of the game for 14 years and dominated that generation of rugby. That makes him a legend, an all time great, and is why he deserves to in be in the all time 'greatest' XV.

 

[mackerzz]

a

France play left and right flankers, so technically he's neither. He was more of a 7 than 6 by his style of play and physique Imo, albeit more of a defensive 7 than attacking one.

agreed but he wore 6 that was what I was meaning

 

[mackerzz]

There was a pretty big all time XV thread a while ago... my picks were:

1. Os Du Rant (SA)
2. Sean Fitzpatrick (NZ)
3. Jason Leonard (ENG)
4. John Eales (AUS)
5. Colin Meads (NZ)
6. Frik du Preez (SA)
7. Richie McCaw (NZ) (CAP)
8. Zinzan Brooke (NZ)
9. Gareth Edwards (WAL)
10. Dan Carter (NZ) (KICK)
11. Jonah Lomu (NZ)
12. Philippe Sella (FRA)
13. Brian O'Driscoll (IRE)
14. David Campese (AUS)
15. Serge Blanco (FRA)

Unlucky (2nd) XV
1. Graham Price (WAL) (Honorable M - Tom Smith, Tony Woodcock, Charlie Faulkner)
2. Kieth Wood (IRE) (Honorable M - John Smit, Bobby Windsor)
3. Carl Heyman (NZ) (Honorable M - Armand Vaquerin)
4. Martin Johnson (ENG) (Honorable M - Willie John McBride, Paul O'Connell, Brodie Retallick)
5. Victor Matfeild (SA)
6. Richard Hill (ENG) (Honorable M - Jerry Collins, Francois Pienaar, Ian Kirkpatrick, Ruben Kruger)
7. Michael Jones (NZ) (Honorable M - George Smith, Jean Pierre Rives, Thierry Dusautoir)
8. Mervyn Davies (WAL) (Honorable M - Lawrence Dallaglio, Buck Shelford)
9. Joost Van Der Westhuizen (SA) (Honorable M - Agustin Pichot, George Greegan)
10. Johnny Wilkinson (ENG) (Honorable M - Naas Botha, Andrew Merthens, Hugo Porta, Barry John, Jonathan Davies, Michael Lynagh, Phil Bennett, Jack Kyle, Mark Ella)
11. Bryan Habana (SA) (Honorable M - Shane Williams, Gerald Davies, Caucau, Brian Williams)
12. Tim Horan (AUS) (Honorable M - Mike Gibson, Ma'a Nonu)
13. Danie Gerber (SA) (Honorable M - Bruce Robertson)
14. John Kirwan (NZ) (Honorable M - Jeff Wilson, Jason Robertson)
15. Christian Cullen (NZ) (Honorable M - Gavin Hastings, JPR Williams)

no conrad smith???

 

[Lancashire Nick]

There was a pretty big all time XV thread a while ago... my picks were:

1. Os Du Rant (SA)
2. Sean Fitzpatrick (NZ)
3. Jason Leonard (ENG)
4. John Eales (AUS)
5. Colin Meads (NZ)
6. Frik du Preez (SA)
7. Richie McCaw (NZ) (CAP)
8. Zinzan Brooke (NZ)
9. Gareth Edwards (WAL)
10. Dan Carter (NZ) (KICK)
11. Jonah Lomu (NZ)
12. Philippe Sella (FRA)
13. Brian O'Driscoll (IRE)
14. David Campese (AUS)
15. Serge Blanco (FRA)

Unlucky (2nd) XV
1. Graham Price (WAL) (Honorable M - Tom Smith, Tony Woodcock, Charlie Faulkner)
2. Kieth Wood (IRE) (Honorable M - John Smit, Bobby Windsor)
3. Carl Heyman (NZ) (Honorable M - Armand Vaquerin)
4. Martin Johnson (ENG) (Honorable M - Willie John McBride, Paul O'Connell, Brodie Retallick)
5. Victor Matfeild (SA)
6. Richard Hill (ENG) (Honorable M - Jerry Collins, Francois Pienaar, Ian Kirkpatrick, Ruben Kruger)
7. Michael Jones (NZ) (Honorable M - George Smith, Jean Pierre Rives, Thierry Dusautoir)
8. Mervyn Davies (WAL) (Honorable M - Lawrence Dallaglio, Buck Shelford)
9. Joost Van Der Westhuizen (SA) (Honorable M - Agustin Pichot, George Greegan)
10. Johnny Wilkinson (ENG) (Honorable M - Naas Botha, Andrew Merthens, Hugo Porta, Barry John, Jonathan Davies, Michael Lynagh, Phil Bennett, Jack Kyle, Mark Ella)
11. Bryan Habana (SA) (Honorable M - Shane Williams, Gerald Davies, Caucau, Brian Williams)
12. Tim Horan (AUS) (Honorable M - Mike Gibson, Ma'a Nonu)
13. Danie Gerber (SA) (Honorable M - Bruce Robertson)
14. John Kirwan (NZ) (Honorable M - Jeff Wilson, Jason Robertson)
15. Christian Cullen (NZ) (Honorable M - Gavin Hastings, JPR Williams)

Some excellent selections there.

You can't compare the full-time players of today to the amateurs of the past (nutrition, training methods, sports science, etc etc have changed too much) ; all you can do is look at how various players impacted upon their era and their contemporaries, and try to deduce their relative greatness from that. My team, from the 45 years that I've been watching would be :

1: Os Du Randt
2: Sean Fitzpatrick (possible captain)
3: Fran Cotton
4: Martin Johnson (possible captain)
5: John Eales (possible captain)
6: Richard Hill
7: Michael Jones
8: Zinzan Brooke
9: Gareth Edwards
10: Dan Carter
11: Jonah Lomu
12: Tim Horan
13: Philippe Sella
14: David Campese
15: JPR Williams

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

no conrad smith???

I have him as the 3rd greatest ABs 13 after Robertson and Umaga. Pretty tight between the 3 of them.

In terms of the all time xv for all countries though, Smith isn't really in the running imo. I think the 4 greatest centers of all time are: Gerber, BOD, Sella and Horan.