Am I the only one worried about rucks???

[lionmaul]

Am I the only one worried about rucks??? Locks please let us know a little more in how it works. Because by the looks of the videos it looks like they are simply random. There are turnovers, not because you the player cause a turnover but because the AI decides to create this situation, if this is the case that would trully be crap. The rest of the game looks really good and I am not here to bash the game but rucks are really important part of rugby that I would like control of. In the video it seems like many times the players are just standing around rather then getting into the ruck, is it because the game is like this or because you decide weather you want your backs to jump into the ruck, and the game is just waiting for the forwards to get into the ruck. Can you turn into ANY player and go into the ruck????? Locks do you think there would be a little more complex system in the final game or higher difficulty level???

 

[jimmy44]

How much control do you really expect in a computer game? As far as I see it when the ball goes to ground it will be won by the team carrying the ball AND with the momentum. If momemtum is lost i.e. through a big defensive tackle, then there is a percentage chance there will be a turnover, and this percentage will be calculated by the computer.

If the ball is loose, it will be the person who reaches it first who will win the ruck.

Lets face it, rucks is one of the more boring elements of rugby anyway. Surely what we want is fast flowing rugby, french style, with backs and forwards passing the ball all over the park! Yes a bit of rucking and mauling, with the option to play the short game should be there, but I don't think what happens deep inside a ruck is a playable option in a computer game.

 

[lionmaul]

Originally posted by jimmy44@Feb 2 2005, 01:40 AM
How much control do you really expect in a computer game? As far as I see it when the ball goes to ground it will be won by the team carrying the ball AND with the momentum. If momemtum is lost i.e. through a big defensive tackle, then there is a percentage chance there will be a turnover, and this percentage will be calculated by the computer.

If the ball is loose, it will be the person who reaches it first who will win the ruck.

Lets face it, rucks is one of the more boring elements of rugby anyway. Surely what we want is fast flowing rugby, french style, with backs and forwards passing the ball all over the park! Yes a bit of rucking and mauling, with the option to play the short game should be there, but I don't think what happens deep inside a ruck is a playable option in a computer game.

With todays gaming technology there is no problem in creating a controlable rucking system, it has been done in the past and gamers liked it, like in Rugby 2001, almost five years have past since that game you are telling me that they cannot tweak a system like that, speed up the interface and better animation, and then you will trully have a real union game, if you don't like rucks go watch league, union is all about rucks and the fine science of rucking, and it does matter who goes into the ruck, you know everytime you see George Smith go into one there is a good chance of a turnover, this aspect of the game should be in our virtual rugby games. If you want to watch league go watch league, don't get me wrong I love watching league rugby to, but league is league and Union is Union. And a Union game should have some kind of a rucking interface and not let it up to the AI do decide who gets the pill. If all else fails then maybe they can have a manual and auto ruck mode for those of you who do not care for the fine science of rucking.
Cheers and Salud

 

[jimmy44]

Believe me I am a union fan through and through - I never watch league. I can understand your desire for a rucking system, as you are obviously a forward yourself. You naturally see this as the most important part of the game, and so to you, this merits more playability. But as far as playability in general is concerned, espacially as EA continue to target a wider audeince, I cannot see an intriquite rucking system being a priority, even if the technolgoy does exist.

To me we havn't even got to that stage yet. Rugby 2004 had so many problems, that I think EA would have their work cut our just correcting them. Its all about priorities and getting a decent game into the market at this stage. Maybe later when the core playability of the game has been addressesd, then we will see more complex rucking systems. The truth is I would also like to see this heppening, because it would add another element to the game, give it more depth. But I feel there are more important areas that need to be improved first e.g passing, running animations, difficulty etc

 

[leicester]

A more playable system for rucks does not necessarily require a significant increase in complexity and the corresponding loss of pick-up-and-playability. You just need to get a feeling that, whilst it may not be easy, you do as a player at least have a chance of a turnover beyond the preprogrammed AI. Clumsy as the R2001 system was, you did at least have that. I agree with lionmaul. 4-5 years development on top of the simple R2001 mechanic and you should have something simple, playable but also more satisfying to those who enjoy forward play.

 

[jimmy44]

I certainly think there will be a simple rucking system, maybe similar to 2001 - even one that gives you a degree of control over who wins. but I am getting the impression that many people are looking for a lot more complexity than this, and I just don't see that happening.

 

[paddyknight]

r2001 rucks were ****, they were basically scrums. rucks need to have the option of being able to slow it down or go as quick as u like, r2005 has this. I get the impression you press x to get players in and whoever has it- or the most people in, and the bar filled there colour the most after about a second-wins it.

 

[lionmaul]

Originally posted by paddyknight@Feb 2 2005, 04:57 AM
r2001 rucks were ****, they were basically scrums. rucks need to have the option of being able to slow it down or go as quick as u like, r2005 has this. I get the impression you press x to get players in and whoever has it- or the most people in, and the bar filled there colour the most after about a second-wins it.

They were scrums because the animation looked like a scrum, but if they were to speed it up and add new and better animation the mechanics were good. The cheat button of last years version was not to far fetch either, 50% of the time when the defending team wins the ruck it is because of sneaky hands on play, happens all the time, how long and how often you do it and how close the ref is

determins weather you would be penalized.
cheers and Salu

 

[NZL Fan]

I actually go along with what Jimmy44 is trying to say........

Rucks generally are quick ways of restarting the next play, and because they should be quick there isn't a lot of room for major strategic play to decide who gets the ball (without slowing play to a crawl, ala rugby 2001).

If rugby 2005 rucks are as I think they are, then I will be content with the amount of control I have of them.

Rugby 2005 rucks appear to:

* Give you better odds of turning over the ball if you are able to put in a big tackle, stop the attacking sides momentum/drive them backwards.
* Lesson the chance of the attacking side regaining the ball if they outrun their support players (rather then keep it tight - means you may not always go wide like previous games, especially with lessor ability teams).
* Give players the option of adding more players to a ruck in an effort to gain possession through sheer numbers in the ruck.
* Increase you chances of winning the ball, taking into account of what players are in the ruck, and what skills they have in this area (ie. Richie McCall will help no end).
* Take into account the momentum being built by both sides.
* Generally allow the attacking side to regain the ball if none of the above occurs - thus retaining momentum - as in real life.

Add to this a possibility that the ability to infringe at the ruck situation is still in there somewhere.

To me the big tackle will be the most affective way I have control of, in trying to turn over ruck ball.

 

[NZL Fan]

Just to add about rucks...........

My only real concern still is that rucks will still be impossible to win on harder levels, with lesser ability teams (like rugby 2004).

This could really ruin the game for me, and we won't know the answer to this until someone is able to play the full version, using a minor team against a major one on a higher difficulty level.

Poor sports game programmers make games harder by denying you possession (HB studios in rugby 2004) or hampering your own players abilities (ala rugby 2001), instead of making the computer AI play better, or utilise the ball better.

Its an easy out to do a "rugby 2004", and I'm just hoping that the FIFA computer AI has been utilised by HB to improve this aspect of the game........

 

[lionmaul]

Originally posted by NZL fan@Feb 2 2005, 03:59 PM
Just to add about rucks...........

My only real concern still is that rucks will still be impossible to win on harder levels, with lesser ability teams (like rugby 2004).

This could really ruin the game for me, and we won't know the answer to this until someone is able to play the full version, using a minor team against a major one on a higher difficulty level.

Poor sports game programmers make games harder by denying you possession (HB studios in rugby 2004) or hampering your own players abilities (ala rugby 2001), instead of making the computer AI play better, or utilise the ball better.

Its an easy out to do a "rugby 2004", and I'm just hoping that the FIFA computer AI has been utilised by HB to improve this aspect of the game........

And this is why we need a better and manual ruck interface.

Cheers and Salud

 

[maddog79]

Not to be pedantic but its not Salud its Salut - the proper way

 

[umosay]

Yes, its just a typo man...

 

[maddog79]

Oh ok riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

 

[Black|Raven]

i've had a look at the vids and i noticed that all rucks were won regardless of the amount of players at the ruck.....it only mattered bout the bar.........i think the barrier created in the middle should be removed and players should drive past the player on the ground.....at the moment players stop in the middle.......THAT'S WHY ITS CALLED A CLEANOUT........maybe this should only happen on turnovers.......but that barrier is evident when there is no opponent at the ruck....looks kinda funny wrestling with no-one......btw if George Smith is the player promoting rugby 2005 you woulf think they would create animation on stolen ball in rucks....how he does it.....however im happy with the progress........rugby 2005, BRING IT

 

[umosay]

Yep, they need a steal animation for rucks, like mccaw and smith. Even pro rugby manager had this, lol.

tip to guys in this thread especially - use spaces etc between paragraphs, it makes it easier to read and less daunting!

 

[Black|Raven]

sorry

man

just

didnt

wanna

waste

space

 

[NZL Fan]

Originally posted by lionmaul+Feb 2 2005, 04:31 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lionmaul @ Feb 2 2005, 04:31 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-NZL fan

@Feb 2 2005, 03:59 PM
Just to add about rucks...........

My only real concern still is that rucks will still be impossible to win on harder levels, with lesser ability teams (like rugby 2004).

This could really ruin the game for me, and we won't know the answer to this until someone is able to play the full version, using a minor team against a major one on a higher difficulty level.

Poor sports game programmers make games harder by denying you possession (HB studios in rugby 2004) or hampering your own players abilities (ala rugby 2001), instead of making the computer AI play better, or utilise the ball better.

Its an easy out to do a "rugby 2004", and I'm just hoping that the FIFA computer AI has been utilised by HB to improve this aspect of the game........

And this is why we need a better and manual ruck interface.

Cheers and Salud [/b]

No, this is where we need a computer AI intelligent enough so that it doesn't need to resort to cheating in rucks.........

In a computer game unfortunitely the rucks, scrums and lineouts are just methods of restarting the real nuts and bolts of the game (running and tackling), hence a quick method of deciding how these are won and contested is needed.

There is enough strategy there if rugby 2005 ruck resolution is like I think it is (see my initial post in this thread).

 

[lionmaul]

Originally posted by NZL fan+Feb 3 2005, 07:09 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NZL fan @ Feb 3 2005, 07:09 AM)</div>

Originally posted by lionmaul@Feb 2 2005, 04:31 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-NZL fan

@Feb 2 2005, 03:59 PM
Just to add about rucks...........

My only real concern still is that rucks will still be impossible to win on harder levels, with lesser ability teams (like rugby 2004).

This could really ruin the game for me, and we won't know the answer to this until someone is able to play the full version, using a minor team against a major one on a higher difficulty level.

Poor sports game programmers make games harder by denying you possession (HB studios in rugby 2004) or hampering your own players abilities (ala rugby 2001), instead of making the computer AI play better, or utilise the ball better.

Its an easy out to do a "rugby 2004", and I'm just hoping that the FIFA computer AI has been utilised by HB to improve this aspect of the game........

And this is why we need a better and manual ruck interface.

Cheers and Salud

No, this is where we need a computer AI intelligent enough so that it doesn't need to resort to cheating in rucks.........

In a computer game unfortunitely the rucks, scrums and lineouts are just methods of restarting the real nuts and bolts of the game (running and tackling), hence a quick method of deciding how these are won and contested is needed.

There is enough strategy there if rugby 2005 ruck resolution is like I think it is (see my initial post in this thread). [/b]

Because in real rugby there is never cheating in rucks, the players are complete gentlemen.

Cheers and Salud

 

[TheBokke]

I reckon NZL Fan has got it right man!! I really love the ruck area of rugby and the only time tope teams lose the ball at the ruck now days is from a big hit or isolating themselves from their support. I am more than happy with what I have seen so far and you guys have to remember how negative we all were in the beginning before the in game footage!!
It could have been ten times worse. I mean if everyone really watches the clips again you will see all kinds of play.

Some have the guys going into win the ball really slowly and then some have the guys flying in to try and win but it is all down to positioning like JLR was. If you watch the two clips STRONG RUNNING(check out the realistic graphics awesome) and HARD RUNNING you can oviously try and smash it up the middle set the ball up for second phase and then try spread it wide etc.

Take a very close look at The Clip GOOD OZ AI OVERLAP the Pom makes a great run at pace and leaves his support behind only for the computer to steal the ball, due to the poor(but fair enough) quality of the clip you can just see an Ozzie go in low and stealing it(only concern was he did not stay on his feet ha ha) typical Oz playing it so close to the line but fair enough they always seem to get away with it.

Come on guys imagine how much worse it could have been!!!