Argentina Pre-2007

[RWC2011Fan]

Found this just now:

 

[Big Ewis]

^ OMG !! wowwwwwww...never knew NZ came THAAAAAAT close to losing against Argentina. Talk about a game-winning try, on the line, goddaaaaaaaamn.

 

[Superalexmarket]

Found this just now:

I was looking for this match for years!!!The victory was so close that time!!! Very bad luck...damn!

 

[LittleGuy]

Namibia that played in CC B section won a test series vs Ireland 2-0 in Namibia and Rhodesia aka Zimbabwe have beaten the All Blacks

I met the son of the captain of the Rhodesian side, he lives in Canada now. I had a beer with him before Ireland vs. Canada and we talked about that game. It wasn't a full test unfortunately.

 

[sifplay]

I met the son of the captain of the Rhodesian side, he lives in Canada now. I had a beer with him before Ireland vs. Canada and we talked about that game. It wasn't a full test unfortunately.

record books says Zim has beaten NZ.

Talking about test status WP beating the B&I Lions was a test status game

 

[LittleGuy]

record books says Zim has beaten NZ.

Talking about test status WP beating the B&I Lions was a test status game

No it says Rhodesia beat New Zealand.

 

[sifplay]

No it says Rhodesia beat New Zealand.

Still Zimbabwe

 

[LittleGuy]

Still Zimbabwe

No, Southern Rhodesia is/was not Zimbabwe, just as Italy is not the Roman Empire. They may have occupied the same territory but the political entities are entirely different, and there is nothing at all similar between the rule of the region before 1979 and afterword. Nor to be even more frank is there anything remotely similar to the make up of the team that took the field against the AB's to a side that Zimbabwe would field now.

Edit: Sorry I was wrong when the match was played it was Southern Rhodesia.

 

[sifplay]

No, Southern Rhodesia is/was not Zimbabwe, just as Italy is not the Roman Empire. They may have occupied the same territory but the political entities are entirely different, and there is nothing at all similar between the rule of the region before 1979 and afterword. Nor to be even more frank is there anything remotely similar to the make up of the team that took the field against the AB's to a side that Zimbabwe would field now.

Edit: Sorry I was wrong when the match was played it was Southern Rhodesia.

With the colony of Northern Rhodesia no longer in existence, in 1964 Southern Rhodesia reverted to the name Rhodesia.

Just a name change. Did not get a total different population. It wasn't split into smaller countries. It just changed names to Rhodesia and then to ZIm simple. All under a hundred years. And they were part of the commonwealth/ Roman empire don't exist anymore

1. Tendai "Beast" Mtawarira
2. Vakai Hove
3. Brian Mujati
4. Andrew Rose
5. Scott Gray
6. David Pocock
7. Bobby Skinstadt
8. David Denton
9. Matt Reid
10. Kennedy Tsimba
11. Edmore Takaendesa
12. Nils Mordt
13. Nyasha Shumba
14. Takudzwa Ngwenya
15. Tonderai Chavhanga

Coach Ian MacIntosh

 

[LittleGuy]

With the colony of Northern Rhodesia no longer in existence, in 1964 Southern Rhodesia reverted to the name Rhodesia. Just a name change. Did not get a total different population. It wasn't split into smaller countries. It just changed names to Rhodesia and then to ZIm simple. All under a hundred years. And they were part of the commonwealth/ Roman empire don't exist anymore

Ummmm, yes they did, the country was ruled by a white minority, the name change in 1964 was very significant as Southern Rhodesia became Rhodesia which was an indepedent breakaway state from the UK. Many regarded it as essentially a rogue state, when the country reverted to black majority rule in 1979, the Whites' essentially grabbed their luggage and ran to the planes. Then Mugabe took power and did his best to show how quickly you can ruin a countries infrastructure, health and food production, it's been a fascinating 25 year program he even succesfully implemented cholera!!! A disease that had almost ceased to exist!!!

Edit: I suppose I'll grant you that the current regime, has essentially adopted the prior history of the rugby team to suit their needs, just as many Canadians like to claim "we burnt down the White House in 1812"...which was really a bunch of Brits, with maybe one or two Canadian(the country didn't even offically exist) militia hanging on.

 

[sifplay]

Ummmm, yes they did, the country was ruled by a white minority, the name change in 1964 was very significant as Southern Rhodesia became Rhodesia which was an indepedent breakaway state from the UK. Many regarded it as essentially a rogue state, when the country reverted to black majority rule in 1979, the Whites' essentially grabbed their luggage and ran to the planes. Then Mugabe took power and did his best to show how quickly you can ruin a countries infrastructure, health and food production, it's been a fascinating 25 year program he even succesfully implemented cholera!!! A disease that had almost ceased to exist!!!

Edit: I suppose I'll grant you that the current regime, has essentially adopted the prior history of the rugby team to suit their needs, just as many Canadians like to claim "we burnt down the White House in 1812"...which was really a bunch of Brits, with maybe one or two Canadian(the country didn't even offically exist) militia hanging on.

No. The whites ran after they invaded the farms. Nevertheless, FEAR is an acronym in the English language for "False Evidence Appearing Real. It makes the wolf appear bigger than he actually is. But it is through knowing the truth and exposing their methods that we will fear no more and laugh in the faces of these manipulators, because when we fear something we give it power…And that I refuse to do.

 

[LittleGuy]

No. The whites ran after they invaded the farms. Nevertheless, FEAR is an acronym in the English language for "False Evidence Appearing Real. It makes the wolf appear bigger than he actually is. But it is through knowing the truth and exposing their methods that we will fear no more and laugh in the faces of these manipulators, because when we fear something we give it power…And that I refuse to do.

That was a reason for the last wave of exodus by the few who had stayed but many had been leaving before that, also the word "fear" is not an acronym, almost no words in English started as acronyms it's a change from the word fer in Middle English which actually meant sudden calamity and wasn't even an emotion.

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about in the last sentence.

 

[psychic duck]

I was looking for this match for years!!!The victory was so close that time!!! Very bad luck...damn!

The two tries Argentina scored in that game and they were two of the most fortuitous you could see. Never seen New Zealand gift tries so easily. Argentina will be annoyed not to have won that as they will never get such a leg up from the All Blacks ever again.

Just watch this. I doubt none of those players Anton Oliver, Richie McCaw or Doug Howlett have ever been complicit in such a horrendous play like that in their careers ever since. The closest I've seen the great All Blacks look like a pub side.

 

[sifplay]

The two tries Argentina scored in that game and they were two of the most fortuitous you could see. Never seen New Zealand gift tries so easily. Argentina will be annoyed not to have won that as they will never get such a leg up from the All Blacks ever again.

Just watch this. I doubt none of those players Anton Oliver, Richie McCaw or Doug Howlett have ever been complicit in such a horrendous play like that in their careers ever since. The closest I've seen the great All Blacks look like a pub side.

It was but the Pumas were pumped up. Flashy stadium, Diego there a bag of coke if that is not good enough encouragement I dunno what is!

 

[sifplay]

That was a reason for the last wave of exodus by the few who had stayed but many had been leaving before that, also the word "fear" is not an acronym, almost no words in English started as acronyms it's a change from the word fer in Middle English which actually meant sudden calamity and wasn't even an emotion.

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about in the last sentence.

FEAR not fear

 

[Superalexmarket]

It was but the Pumas were pumped up. Flashy stadium, Diego there a bag of coke if that is not good enough encouragement I dunno what is!

Maybe a good poisoned food for the AB´s, before the RWC 95 final is better.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

Was looking through some of the results the Pumas achieved before their breakthrough in '07 on this website:
http://rugby-365.blogspot.co.nz/ and I can't help but think, "holy crap!"

New Zealand 25-19 Argentina
Lions 25-25 Argentina
Argentina 50-44 Wales
South Africa 26-25 Argentina
New Zealand 24-20 Argentina- Was NZ fielding a 2nd String side that day or something?
Argentina 25-16 Scotland
Argentina 30-16 Wales
South Africa 37-33 Argentina
Australia 32-25 Argentina
England 24-19 Argentina- They lost, but they scored two tries to nil
Argentina 27-19 Australia
...just to name a few.

You can watch clips from a few of these games here: http://www.youtube.com/user/LasGarzas11/videos

And given how little I know about rugby, I have more questions...

How popular was rugby in Argentina before 2007? Because it seems like they've had a number of sell-out crowds in over the years in fairly large venues, even before joining the Rugby Championship. It seems like the interest was definitely there, or were big rugby matches just a novelty?

On average, how many professionals were in the Argentine squad between 1999 (were sides like Ireland even fully professional in 1999?) and 2005? Specifically against the Lions in '05. If they were missing so many first-choice players, I can imagine the bulk of the side was probably made up by a fair number of amateurs.

When did Argentina become a Tier-1 nation?

Why was Argentina's performance in 2007 such a surprise? I mean, people were calling their pool the 'Pool of Death' because of their inclusion, Ireland were awful, they'd won 5 of the last 6 matches against France (and France's victory was by a single point), and Scotland....well they're Scotland.



Oh, by the way, would anyone happen to have the pool match between Ireland and Argentina from 2003? Final score was 16-15. Also on the lookout for Ireland 21-19 Argentina and Ireland 17-3 Argentina. Mostly interested in them for the fights lol.

On a side note, Canada beat Scotland 26-23 in 2002...interesting

I have been watching rugby since about the year 2001 so I will give you a little history lesson. Argentina are a Tier-1 Nation and have been so for a very long time. This idea that they are not is totally false and is based off of myth rather then actual substance. The only people that were surprised that Argentina went as far as they did in 2007 were elitists from the old guard of rugby who couldn`t understand how a second rate nation with no professional competition could beat the best they had to offer. What they failed to account for was the vast majority of Argentinians already playing professionally in Europe and that Argentina had some very high quality players at the time who were at the peak of their playing abilities.

Names like:

Mario Ledesma
Omar Hasan
Rodrigo Roncero
Martin Durand
Gonzalo Longo
Augustin Pichot
Felipe Contepomi
Juan Hernandez (Who at the time was called one of the best players in the world)

Argentina was at the very top of their development cycle which started all the way back post WC 2003 and continued building until 2007-2009 when the majority of those players began to retire. People are quick to forget the Argentina beat all of the Six Nations sides during that time, some of them by very big margins and ran SA and NZ close on a number of occasions. They rose all the way to being ranked 3rd in the world which set the conditions for their present entry into the Rugby Championship.

Argentina has been a power for a long time and while they are in a re-building phase they will continue to get stronger and stronger. It is a large country with a great sporting culture and it will only continue to prove itself on the rugby world stage.