Argentina Pre-2007

[RWC2011Fan]

Was looking through some of the results the Pumas achieved before their breakthrough in '07 on this website:
http://rugby-365.blogspot.co.nz/ and I can't help but think, "holy crap!"

New Zealand 25-19 Argentina
Lions 25-25 Argentina
Argentina 50-44 Wales
South Africa 26-25 Argentina
New Zealand 24-20 Argentina- Was NZ fielding a 2nd String side that day or something?
Argentina 25-16 Scotland
Argentina 30-16 Wales
South Africa 37-33 Argentina
Australia 32-25 Argentina
England 24-19 Argentina- They lost, but they scored two tries to nil
Argentina 27-19 Australia
...just to name a few.

You can watch clips from a few of these games here: http://www.youtube.com/user/LasGarzas11/videos

And given how little I know about rugby, I have more questions...

How popular was rugby in Argentina before 2007? Because it seems like they've had a number of sell-out crowds in over the years in fairly large venues, even before joining the Rugby Championship. It seems like the interest was definitely there, or were big rugby matches just a novelty?

On average, how many professionals were in the Argentine squad between 1999 (were sides like Ireland even fully professional in 1999?) and 2005? Specifically against the Lions in '05. If they were missing so many first-choice players, I can imagine the bulk of the side was probably made up by a fair number of amateurs.

When did Argentina become a Tier-1 nation?

Why was Argentina's performance in 2007 such a surprise? I mean, people were calling their pool the 'Pool of Death' because of their inclusion, Ireland were awful, they'd won 5 of the last 6 matches against France (and France's victory was by a single point), and Scotland....well they're Scotland.



Oh, by the way, would anyone happen to have the pool match between Ireland and Argentina from 2003? Final score was 16-15. Also on the lookout for Ireland 21-19 Argentina and Ireland 17-3 Argentina. Mostly interested in them for the fights lol.

On a side note, Canada beat Scotland 26-23 in 2002...interesting

 

[Aspry]

Only Boks and AB's remains unbeatable for us.

As for your questions:

Rugby isn't a popular sport in Argentina even today and obviously it wasn't a popular sport before 2007, Although I've to recognize after 2007 RWC the sport popularity begun to grow. However is not so popular yet, you can see this for example in the recent match against South Africa in Mendoza, the stadium was half empty and I am sure that it would be full if it was a second division football match. Also, I am sure if you go on the streets and ask some random people about some Rugby rule just a few could answer your question appropriately.

I am sure there was a bunch of professional players on those squads but they were also a huge amount of amateurs, I am not really sure since I was little in that time and I didn't discover Rugby untill 2006-2007.

I am not sure about when we become Tier 1 nation, I guess someone else with more knowledge about Rugby can answer that.

I don't believe it was the pool of death, sure it was a tough group but not so different to others. Maybe it was the french media, idk.

 

[Big Ewis]

Only Boks and AB's remains unbeatable for us.

AND France...........

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

AND France...........

Argentina have beaten France. Only NZ, SA and the Lions have never been beaten by Argentina.

 

[Big Ewis]

Argentina have beaten France. Only NZ, Aus and the Lions have never been beaten by Argentina.

 

[psychic duck]

Argentina have beaten France. Only NZ, Aus and the Lions have never been beaten by Argentina.

Argentina have beaten Australia 4 times. New Zealand are the only nation they are yet to beat.

 

[Big Ewis]

Argentina have beaten Australia 4 times. New Zealand are the only nation they are yet to beat.

well dude...you serious ?...and South Africa.....

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Argentina have beaten France. Only NZ, Aus and the Lions have never been beaten by Argentina.

uhmm...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well they've drawn with SA and then there was that game against the South America jaguars or whatever which was basically Argentna.

 

[psychic duck]

well dude...you serious ?...and South Africa.....

Beat them in 1982.

 

[Big Ewis]

Well they've drawn with SA and then there was that game against the South America jaguars or whatever which was basically Argentna.

oh yeah, you're right...didn't know about that. Arg. has also drawn with NZ of course, but I didn't know about that Jaguar tour thing. Dunno if this really counts, in my book Argentina have yet to have defeated the Boks.

EDIT

Beat them in 1982.

yeh, just saw that...

 

[Superalexmarket]

Argentina have beaten France. Only NZ, Aus and the Lions have never been beaten by Argentina.

MMMM...Someone don't understand ironies.

There was an undercover victory from Argentina vs the Springboks in april 3 of 1982 in Bloemfontein. Sudamerica XV (only argies players) defeated the boks 21 to 12.
All the argentines points were made by the great Hugo Porta.

 

[psychic duck]

oh yeah, you're right...didn't know about that. Arg. has also drawn with NZ of course, but I didn't know about that Jaguar tour thing. Dunno if this really counts, in my book Argentina have yet to have defeated the Boks.

Of course it counts. That "South America" side was just Argentina in different clothing. The lineup was all Argentine Pumas, and South Africa awarded full caps and were a full strength side. The only reason for the name change was to get around the ban, New Zealand did a similar thing as the "New Zealand Cavaliers" as well.

 

[LittleGuy]

Was looking through some of the results the Pumas achieved before their breakthrough in '07 on this website:
http://rugby-365.blogspot.co.nz/ and I can't help but think, "holy crap!"

New Zealand 25-19 Argentina
Lions 25-25 Argentina
Argentina 50-44 Wales
South Africa 26-25 Argentina
New Zealand 24-20 Argentina- Was NZ fielding a 2nd String side that day or something?
Argentina 25-16 Scotland
Argentina 30-16 Wales
South Africa 37-33 Argentina
Australia 32-25 Argentina
England 24-19 Argentina- They lost, but they scored two tries to nil
Argentina 27-19 Australia
...just to name a few.

You can watch clips from a few of these games here: http://www.youtube.com/user/LasGarzas11/videos

And given how little I know about rugby, I have more questions...

How popular was rugby in Argentina before 2007? Because it seems like they've had a number of sell-out crowds in over the years in fairly large venues, even before joining the Rugby Championship. It seems like the interest was definitely there, or were big rugby matches just a novelty?

On average, how many professionals were in the Argentine squad between 1999 (were sides like Ireland even fully professional in 1999?) and 2005? Specifically against the Lions in '05. If they were missing so many first-choice players, I can imagine the bulk of the side was probably made up by a fair number of amateurs.

When did Argentina become a Tier-1 nation?

Why was Argentina's performance in 2007 such a surprise? I mean, people were calling their pool the 'Pool of Death' because of their inclusion, Ireland were awful, they'd won 5 of the last 6 matches against France (and France's victory was by a single point), and Scotland....well they're Scotland.



Oh, by the way, would anyone happen to have the pool match between Ireland and Argentina from 2003? Final score was 16-15. Also on the lookout for Ireland 21-19 Argentina and Ireland 17-3 Argentina. Mostly interested in them for the fights lol.

On a side note, Canada beat Scotland 26-23 in 2002...interesting

We have a couple of other wins over Tier One sides....mostly from our peak as a Tier Two side in the late amateur era....some I found in a quick search...there is also a draw vs. Ireland.

25 June 1983. Canada 19-13 Italy Sports Complex, Burnaby Lake
30 March 1990. Canada 15-6 Argentina Sports Complex, Burnaby Lake
16 June 1990. Argentina 15-19 Canada Estadio José Amalfitani, Buenos Aires
10 November 1993. Wales 24-26 Canada Cardiff Arms Park (Canada's biggest ever victory IMHO)
4 June 1994. Canada 18-16 France Twin Elm Rugby Park, Nepean
17 June 2000. Canada 27-27 Ireland Fletcher's Field's, Markham
11 November 2000. Italy 17-22 Canada Stadio Comunale Mario Battaglini, Rovigo
15 June 2002. Canada 26-23 Scotland Vancouver
2 July 2005. Canada 22-15 Argentina Kingsland, Calgary (This was a fairly poor Argentine side, and there was controversy over the full test status)


Video of the 1993 win...sadly this guy butchered the vid and the try build up....

 

[Big Ewis]

Of course it counts. That "South America" side was just Argentina in different clothing. The lineup was all Argentine Pumas, and South Africa awarded full caps and were a full strength side. The only reason for the name change was to get around the ban, New Zealand did a similar thing as the "New Zealand Cavaliers" as well.

alright...good to know. Then it's official: the AB are the only team left to beat for Argentina. It's funny they'll be doing that in a few weeks.......

LittleGuy:
that's right man, http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/22797.html
Looks like a healthy French squad too. Nice one.

 

[sifplay]

Of course it counts. That "South America" side was just Argentina in different clothing. The lineup was all Argentine Pumas, and South Africa awarded full caps and were a full strength side. The only reason for the name change was to get around the ban, New Zealand did a similar thing as the "New Zealand Cavaliers" as well.

And for the Kiwi's to deny any losses they might get. You know losing a test series against SA they don't blame the ref. They blame diseases and not having to play Moari players. Which was crap in 36 they had only 1 Moari in their most played league and couldn't afford a 3 month tour in a amateur game

 

[LittleGuy]

alright...good to know. Then it's official: the AB are the only team left to beat for Argentina. It's funny they'll be doing that in a few weeks.......

LittleGuy:
that's right man, http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/22797.html
Looks like a healthy French squad too. Nice one.

We have a couple of wins over strong "A" sides as well, beat an England XV ages ago and had a win vs. France A at the Churchill Cup in 2010 a side that was all quality Top 14 players and some were capped full French players.

 

[sifplay]

We have a couple of wins over strong "A" sides as well, beat an England XV ages ago and had a win vs. France A at the Churchill Cup in 2010 a side that was all quality Top 14 players and some were capped full French players.

Namibia that played in CC B section won a test series vs Ireland 2-0 in Namibia and Rhodesia aka Zimbabwe have beaten the All Blacks

 

[Aspry]

So..

The only teams that beat All Blacks are South Africa, Australia, France, England and Wales?

 

[Big Ewis]

We have a couple of wins over strong "A" sides as well, beat an England XV ages ago and had a win vs. France A at the Churchill Cup in 2010 a side that was all quality Top 14 players and some were capped full French players.

OK, OK !! gotcha ! : p

So..

The only teams that beat All Blacks are South Africa, Australia, France, England and Wales?

Yes...with Wales exactly 60 years ago today (well, December '53). : D

It's pretty insane when you think about it...5 sides have EVER beaten the AB. Argentina is next on that list, and Ireland suuuuuuure ought to/deserve their glory day...but Wales are clearly the target I'd say, the side with the most pressure. I mean they're an elite int'l side, and it's been SIXTY YEARS. Dat losing streak sure is pilin up.