Argentina RWC Preview

[psychic duck]

Phelan has lost the plot

Lalanne ahead of Figuerola is a joke

This is the biggest selection error of Phelan's, Lalanne has hardly even made the bench for London Irish last season, and he hasn't yet found a team for next season, and when I last saw him play (Argentina v Scotland June 2010) he was totally dreadful, and it's not as if he's been selected because there is nobody else available, I've read some good reviews on Agustín Figuerola in the French media for his season playing for Brive

Below is an extract of what I've read on him:

Agustin Figuerola : Le petit demi-de-mêlée argentin constitue la bonne surprise de la fin de saison du CABCL. Arrivé très tôt en tant que joker médical de Jean-Baptiste Péjoine, l'international puma a mis du temps à se mettre dans le rythme. Mais pour sa première ***ularisation en championnat à Perpignan début janvier, il livre une grosse performance et offre un essai à Cooke. Associé en fin de saison à Bélie, sa vista et sa rapidité dans les sorties de balles impressionnent. Les supporters brivistes attendent avec impatience la fin de la Coupe du Monde, afin de revoir leur petit lutin argentin.

Translation:
The little Argentine scrum half was a pleasant surprise at the end of the Brive's season. He arrived very early in the season as a medical joker for Jean-Baptiste Péjoine, the international Puma took his time to get into rhythm. But when he was given his first Top 14 start in January against Perpignan he had a great perrformance and set up a try for Cooke. He got a run of games at the end of the season alongside Bélie at 10, his speed of pass has been impressive. The Brive supporters eagerly await for the end of the World Cup, to see their little Argentine elf.

Gosio ahead of Bustos Moyano is a joke

Unlike Lalanne, I have nothing against Gosio, but Bustos Moyano was a revelation for Montpellier last season and his style of play is exactly what I would want in knockout matches, I saw his nerves of steel for Montpellier to win their match in the penultimate play against Racing-Métro, he would have been a very safe pair of hands in case one of the back three was having a disaster


Vallejos ahead of Guzmán is a joke

To a lesser extent than the other two though, there probably isn't too much difference between the players but given that they would both be considered fourth choice lock to go, I would much rather have Guzmán who is 22 already been part of the squad for a year and has far more potential given the chance to go and prove himself and maybe earn himself a professional move that he was so close to in 2010.

I hope Argentina sack Santiago Phelan, if Argentina don't make it out of their group, or even make it to the quarter final but do it playing poorly like they have over the past couple of years (Melhor can you tell me what credentials Phelan had when he was appointed Argentina coach in 2007)

maybe Mauricio Reggiardo the coach of Pampas XV could take over, or Loffreda could return

I'll give Phelan to the end of World Cup though anyway

 

[Melhor Time]

Psychic Duck

As we´ve been over I would start Agustín Figuerola vs England. It would, however, be a surprize considering that Nicolás Vergallo and Alfredo Lalanne have been the two players used regularly. Lalanne is my third choice but has been used more than Figuerola so I do understand his selection but would not pick him myself. Vergallo is the best organizer and passer of the three but Figuerola is better for a running game. Lalanne was good for Argentina in 2009 the match vs Scotland that you mention was when he got injured. He´s a good player but should not be ahead of Figuerola.

Agustín Gosio has been selected as a centre not a winger. Martín Bustos Moyano missed out with Juan Imhoff being picked instead. Gosio played inside centre in the Vodacom Cup and got a try in the final.



I would not have picked Gosio in my squad as I don´t think its necessary. Phelan went for him as a specialist centre who can cover wing. He was picked over the European based trio of Miguel Avramovic, Horacio San Martín and Federico Martín Aramburu. Personally, I think Gosio is surplus as Argentina have Fernández, Bosch and Contepomi for 12 and Tiesi and Bosch for 13. Rodríguez can play 12 and Agulla 13 if need be. Bustos Moyano has been awesome for Montpellier but he is uncapped. I would have picked him as a wing covering fullback but they went for Agulla and Lucasd Gonzalez Amorosino. I had all threee in my squad but it would be hard to justify this and not pick a centre.

Vallejos is a good pick. I had him over Guzmán in my squad. As you said its for fourth choice secondrower. He´s played in England and got lots of game time for the past 2 years with Harlequins and before that he played in Italy. Guzmán is still based in Argentina and was nothing like as good as Mariano Galarza who really played well. The reason I favor Vallejos over Guzmán is simple - a solid #4 to cover for Manuel Carizza. Galarza is cover for Albacete, Guzmán is a 4 and not as physical. He´s 22 years old only. He´ll be in the Tri Nations squad next year but the World Cup is a bit too soon for him.

Santiago Phelan was a bit of a surprize selection as coach but was choosen after a long period. The UAR were replacing Loffreda after eith years in charge and went for a young guy but have him quality support coaches in Reggiardo and Turnes. Phelan is not so traditional and thats what the UAR wanted. A young guy - he is younger than Mario Ledesma. I wanted him sacked after the losses vs Scotland in 2010 but then Argentina smahed France so who knows... the World Cup will be the hour of truth.

 

[Darwin]

Interesting squad make-up. Given they have taken 17 forwards I would have thought that they would have had room for the 3 hookers (as most teams will take). Is one of the props able to cover hooker? In understand the reason for 5 props in the squad (given they are likely to use 2 props on the bench), but I don't really think they need 6 loose forwards in the squad...

Again, a bit of a surprise to see only two halfbacks taken. There seems to be plenty of cover for the remaining backline positions though, with a number of the backline players capable of playing multiple positions.

Given the squad, what do people think Argentina's top team will look like?

 

[Melhor Time]

darwin_23

17 forwards is the same number from RWC 2007. I think 2 hookers is okay. If one gets hurt then they can call in a replacement for the following match under World Cup rules.. The replacement cannot start but can be on the bench. France went for two hookers too. Props are most important to have in large stocks and they have to be specialists. I´m happy with five props. None of the five can cover hooker but as professional players I´m sure they have plenty of knowledge and experience training to play if an emergency presents itself.

Six loose forwards is for me, a must. Every side needs six in my opinion. Three starters, one on the bench and two out of the match day 22 but there , if required for the following match. The reserve backrower always plays and can replace any one of the backrowers. So naturally having two further players to use following a tough game can be very useful. Lets say Argentina go with 8 Leguizamón, 7 Galindo and 6 Fernández Lobbe vs England with 18 Senatore replacing Galindo for a knock in the secondhalf and Leguizamón plays the full game but needs 10 days to recover. This means neither Galindo nor Leguizamon would be able to play the next game vs Romania. If so then Argentina would field 8 Senatore, 7 Farias, 6 Fernández Lobbe with 18 being Campos. Situations like these also present themselves. Going into a Rugby World Cup without a sixth backrower is high risk stuff. It means one secondrower needs to cover the backrow.

Two halfbacks is a surprize but nothing new. Argentina did it in 2007 and France are doing it for 2011 too. I would have gone for three but its not an absolute. Often the third scrumhalf doesn´t play at all. He is just a benchman for the easiest match of the pool stage and gets a 20 minute run. This is the definition of surplus but, still, the position is so specialized that for me, 3 is important., But I am not the coach and many sides will only take 2 scrumhalves.

Given the squad, what do people think Argentina's top team will look like?

Vs England I´d say the team will be

15 Martín Rodríguez Gurruchaga (Stade Français, Fra)
14 Gonzalo Camacho (Exeter Chiefs, Eng)
13 Gonzalo Tiesi (Stade Français, Fra)
12 Santi Fernández (Montpellier, Fra)
11 Lucas González Amorosino (Montpellier, Fra)
10 Felipe Contepomi (Stade Français, Fra)
9 Nicolás Vergallo (Toulouse, Fra)
8 Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (Toulon, Fra)
7 Juan Manuel Leguizamón (Lyon, Fra)
6 Alvaro Galindo (Racing Metro, Fra)
5 Patricio Albacete (Toulouse, Fra)
4 Manuel Carizza (Biarritz, Fra)
3 Martín Scelzo (Agen, Fra)
2 Mario Ledesma (Clermont, Fra)
1 Marcos Ayerza (Leicester Tigers, Eng)

16 Agustín Creevy (Montpellier, Fra)
17 Rodrigo Roncero (Stade Français, Fra)
18 Juan Figallo (Montpellier, Fra)
19 Mariano Galarza (Los Pampas XV, Arg)
20 Julio Farias (Los Pampas XV, Arg)
21 Alfredo Lalanne (London Irish, Eng)
22 Marcelo Bosch (Biarritz, Fra)

Speedy backs. Not such a kicking game this time around. Thats my conclusion anyway.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I see you're a big fan of Camacho.
Is Agulla injured, or he just doesn't make your team?

 

[Melhor Time]

I see you're a big fan of Camacho.
Is Agulla injured, or he just doesn't make your team?

Camacho was Argentina´s best back vs Italy and France in november 2010 and had a very good season for the Harlequins. He should definetly start in the 14 shirt.

No, thats the team I think will play. I´d field a slightly different one.

i.e.

15 Martín Rodríguez Gurruchaga (Stade Français, Fra)
14 Gonzalo Camacho (Exeter Chiefs, Eng)
13 Gonzalo Tiesi (Stade Français, Fra)
12 Santi Fernández (Montpellier, Fra)
11 Horacio Agulla (Leicesiter Tigers, Eng)
10 Felipe Contepomi (Stade Français, Fra)
9 Nicolás Vergallo (Toulouse, Fra)
8 Juan Manuel Leguizamón (Lyon, Fra)
7 Alvaro Galindo (Racing Metro, Fra)
6 Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (Toulon, Fra)
5 Patricio Albacete (Toulouse, Fra)
4 Manuel Carizza (Biarritz, Fra)
3 Martín Scelzo (Agen, Fra)
2 Mario Ledesma (Clermont, Fra)
1 Marcos Ayerza (Leicester Tigers, Eng)

16 Agustín Creevy (Montpellier, Fra)
17 Rodrigo Roncero (Stade Français, Fra)
18 Juan Figallo (Montpellier, Fra)
19 Mariano Galarza (Los Pampas XV, Arg)
20 Leonardo Senatore (Los Pampas XV, Arg)
21 Alfredo Lalanne (London Irish, Eng)
22 Marcelo Bosch (Biarritz, Fra)

 

[Darwin]

darwin_23

17 forwards is the same number from RWC 2007. I think 2 hookers is okay. If one gets hurt then they can call in a replacement for the following match under World Cup rules.. The replacement cannot start but can be on the bench. France went for two hookers too. Props are most important to have in large stocks and they have to be specialists. I´m happy with five props. None of the five can cover hooker but as professional players I´m sure they have plenty of knowledge and experience training to play if an emergency presents itself.

Six loose forwards is for me, a must. Every side needs six in my opinion. Three starters, one on the bench and two out of the match day 22 but there , if required for the following match. The reserve backrower always plays and can replace any one of the backrowers. So naturally having two further players to use following a tough game can be very useful. Lets say Argentina go with 8 Leguizamón, 7 Galindo and 6 Fernández Lobbe vs England with 18 Senatore replacing Galindo for a knock in the secondhalf and Leguizamón plays the full game but needs 10 days to recover. This means neither Galindo nor Leguizamon would be able to play the next game vs Romania. If so then Argentina would field 8 Senatore, 7 Farias, 6 Fernández Lobbe with 18 being Campos. Situations like these also present themselves. Going into a Rugby World Cup without a sixth backrower is high risk stuff. It means one secondrower needs to cover the backrow.

Your explanation for why you need 6 loose-forwards (the chance of players getting injured) is the exact reason that I feel teams need 3 hookers, though it is far more critical with hookers due to fact it is a more specialised position. If you only take 2 hookers and one picks up a minor injury at any stage (say ruling him out for only a week) what do you do? Do you start the next match with no hooker cover on the bench (a huge risk!), or do replace the player even though he will be fine in a weeks time? Basically if either of your hookers gets injured at any stage you are left with a big problem. You can replace a player that is injured as you say, though there is a 48-hour stand-down period before the player can play for the team. The problem is that you now have a new player who is likely unfamiliar with the lineout calls, defensive systems, and general game plan of the team, and this new hooker will have to be involved in the next match-day 22.

Because of all this the majority of teams will take three hookers. Most teams tend to take either 3 locks and 6 loose-forwards (with at least one loose-forwards that can cover lock) or 4 locks and 5 loose-forwards (with at least one lock that can cover the loose-forwards). Going into the world cup with only 2 hooker is far more of a risk than going in with only 5 loose-forwards in my opinion.

Vs England I´d say the team will be

15 Martín Rodríguez Gurruchaga (Stade Français, Fra)
14 Gonzalo Camacho (Exeter Chiefs, Eng)
13 Gonzalo Tiesi (Stade Français, Fra)
12 Santi Fernández (Montpellier, Fra)
11 Lucas González Amorosino (Montpellier, Fra)
10 Felipe Contepomi (Stade Français, Fra)
9 Nicolás Vergallo (Toulouse, Fra)
8 Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (Toulon, Fra)
7 Juan Manuel Leguizamón (Lyon, Fra)
6 Alvaro Galindo (Racing Metro, Fra)
5 Patricio Albacete (Toulouse, Fra)
4 Manuel Carizza (Biarritz, Fra)
3 Martín Scelzo (Agen, Fra)
2 Mario Ledesma (Clermont, Fra)
1 Marcos Ayerza (Leicester Tigers, Eng)

16 Agustín Creevy (Montpellier, Fra)
17 Rodrigo Roncero (Stade Français, Fra)
18 Juan Figallo (Montpellier, Fra)
19 Mariano Galarza (Los Pampas XV, Arg)
20 Julio Farias (Los Pampas XV, Arg)
21 Alfredo Lalanne (London Irish, Eng)
22 Marcelo Bosch (Biarritz, Fra)

Speedy backs. Not such a kicking game this time around. Thats my conclusion anyway.

Thanks for that. Just a random question (bearing in mind I know little about many of the Argentine players) who are the backup goal-kickers (presumably behind Contemponi) in the squad, and how good are they? Goal-kicking I'm sure will be vital in the RWC.

Incidentally I can't wait for the Argentina v England match in Dunedin, as I've just bought my tickets. The new Dunedin stadium is a phenomenal place to watch rugby in - the view from the stands is amazing. I reckon this could be one of the best matches of the tournament.

 

[Melhor Time]

Your explanation for why you need 6 loose-forwards (the chance of players getting injured) is the exact reason that I feel teams need 3 hookers, though it is far more critical with hookers due to fact it is a more specialised position. If you only take 2 hookers and one picks up a minor injury at any stage (say ruling him out for only a week) what do you do? Do you start the next match with no hooker cover on the bench (a huge risk!), or do replace the player even though he will be fine in a weeks time? Basically if either of your hookers gets injured at any stage you are left with a big problem. You can replace a player that is injured as you say, though there is a 48-hour stand-down period before the player can play for the team. The problem is that you now have a new player who is likely unfamiliar with the lineout calls, defensive systems, and general game plan of the team, and this new hooker will have to be involved in the next match-day 22.

True, but the reality is its 30 players and thus 2 per position. Hookers are mandatory on the bench and so if one players is injured they´ll reaplce him - within the requried period. It happened in 2007 when Ledesma was injured in the semi final and replaced by Guiñazu for the bronze final.

Thanks for that. Just a random question (bearing in mind I know little about many of the Argentine players) who are the backup goal-kickers (presumably behind Contemponi) in the squad, and how good are they? Goal-kicking I'm sure will be vital in the RWC..

If the 22 I named is correct then there are five goalkickers. Martín Rodríguez was the goalkicker vs England, Wales and Scotland in 2009. Sánchez is more accurate than Contepomi, Rodríguez probably is too in all honesty. Fernández has kicked goals for Montpellier on occasion - better than Trinh-Duc. Bosch is another possibility. he kicked vs Italy in 2008.

Incidentally I can't wait for the Argentina v England match in Dunedin, as I've just bought my tickets. The new Dunedin stadium is a phenomenal place to watch rugby in - the view from the stands is amazing. I reckon this could be one of the best matches of the tournament.

Lets get together then for Ireland vs Italy as I´ve got tickets for that one. I´ll miss Argentina vs England as I´ll still be in Brazil. I get in NZ a few days before Argentina vs Scotland and leave after the Quarter Finals.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Good looking squad.

 

[Darwin]

Lets get together then for Ireland vs Italy as I´ve got tickets for that one. I´ll miss Argentina vs England as I´ll still be in Brazil. I get in NZ a few days before Argentina vs Scotland and leave after the Quarter Finals.

I'd definately be keen to meet up for the Ireland v Italy match - I haven't bought my tickets for that match yet, but I plan to get some. It is going to be a big rugby watching day: Argentina v Georgia at 1pm, New Zealand v Canada at 3.30pm, Wales vs Fiji at 6pm, then the Italy vs Ireland match at 8.30pm....

 

[Pierce Brosnan Rugby]

Are u from argentina dude??.... well let me tell u something, after England, GEORGIA is
the main treat not Scotland... Georgia is tough it will be a mess for England and Argentina that game...Georgia will beat scotland like 17-12 remember my words..

 

[psychic duck]

after watching the Argentina vs Wales match a few things must be changed

• two small centres who are naturally 10/12's in partnership does not work, both are playmakers neither of them are going to give a reliable few metres per carry, Bosch is simply not a good player, and not a 13 and should be got rid of, unfortunately there are no ball carrying Argentine centres at the moment, the Pumas either need to convert a ball carrier there or just hope there is a young gem back in Argentina for the future
• Felipe Contepomi must improve his goal kicking, this is biggest area of concern, it was poor in the autumn as well, but if Argentina were 14-9 down rather than 14-3 at half time it would have made a big difference to the mentality of the players, either Rodríguez should start kicking like he did in the Autumn internationals 2009, or Sánchez should be brought in, but if Contepomi kicks like that the Pumas will not beat Scotland
• Ayerza should start, in my view not that much more superior to Roncero at scrum time, but Roncero simply gives away too many penalties, also Figallo should be bench not starting
• The wingers must get involved more, neither Agulla or Camacho came into play on Saturday, I hardly noticed either of them were playing, but they need to offer angles around the centres rather than just hanging out on the wing waiting for the ball to be passed tamely along the line and go nowhere, if Agulla and Camacho can't do this then Juan Imhoff who impressed me off the bench should be given a chance
• A natural openside is needed, this has been known for quite some time, and none of the current squad offer this, I just hope de la Vega will be ready for the 2012 Tri Nations, the TRF Americas rugby expert Melhor has high hopes of him

but there were a few positives

• Vergallo had a good match
• Juan Imhoff looks quite a prospect, astonished no teams are eyeing him up
• Rodríguez started brightly, showed some good skills initially but faded as the match went on, so frustrating to see he still wastes possession going for stupid drop goals

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I agree, Duck. I thought the same about the centres. They could do with a player like Canale or Garcia - both born and raised in Argentina.

It's just silly to play Contepomi at 10, he's like the perfect 12: can gain metres when needed, has tactical kicking and has a good passig game.

 

[erwanseb]

Definitely Contepomi will bring more at inside center than at fly half, in modern rugby the inside center has more influence on the team performance than the fly half.

 

[stus768]

Definitely Contepomi will bring more at inside center than at fly half, in modern rugby the inside center has more influence on the team performance than the fly half.

Have to disagree with u on this point. If u think Dan Carter has less influence than Ma'nonu then fair play to u.

 

[stus768]

Definitely Contepomi will bring more at inside center than at fly half, in modern rugby the inside center has more influence on the team performance than the fly half.

Have to disagree with u on this point. If u think Dan Carter has less influence than Ma'nonu then fair play to u.

 

[stus768]

Also what other options do they have at 10? I felt the forwards and 9 for argentina played well but the back lacked and cohesiveness or cutting edge. May be due to lack of game time together?