Aussies 'stealing' NZ players

[smartcooky]

I heard somewhere that in NZ your youth get seperated into size groups as much as age. Is that accurate?

It makes sense in that it helps with skills development; big guys would need to develop skills to dominate other big guys while small guys who have skill don't get discouraged from playing rugby as they can 'catch up' later because lets face it at age grade a big guy can look brilliant while being so far ahead of the pack ITO sheer physical presence but might get found out later when his size advantage becomes more and moer insignificant.

At Junior level, in most Provincial Unions, they have both "open" and "weight" restricted age grades. For example, here in Nelson;

U11 must be less than 65 kg or they go up to U12
U11-W must be less than 43 kg

U12 must be less than 74 kg or they go up to U13
U12-W must be less than 49 kg

U13 must be less than 83 kg or they go up to U14
U13-W must be less than 55 kg

There are no separate "weight for age" grades from U14 upwards, but players under the age of 14 who are over 90kg go up to U15.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

At Junior level, in most Provincial Unions, they have both "open" and "weight" restricted age grades. For example, here in Nelson;

U11 must be less than 65 kg or they go up to U12
U11-W must be less than 43 kg

U12 must be less than 74 kg or they go up to U13
U12-W must be less than 49 kg

U13 must be less than 83 kg or they go up to U14
U13-W must be less than 55 kg

There are no separate "weight for age" grades from U14 upwards, but players under the age of 14 who are over 90kg go up to U15.

That's very interesting, thanks. Certainly something to consider.

 

[FlukeArtist]

No I get this, but this still gives the impression that while they immigrate to NZ, they are still seen as Pacific Islanders, and that they go to NZ for better opportunities, which undoubtedly there will be in NZ. How is this in any way different when a South African family immigrates to NZ or Australia? None whatsoever. in ther near future we will see many South African Expats' children run out for Australia, especially due to the large contingent of Saffas living in Perth. Yet, what can we say? Oz stole them? nope, SA wasn't the place for them? most probably. Most Saffas move to Oz as they are fed up with crime, and all of them are closet racists. so they move to a place where they will be accepted.

Either way you want to look at any of this scenarios. the fact will always remain, Non-NZ's will always see NZ as poaching pacific islanders, no matter what the stats say or how much convincing there will be made. SA Expats moving to Oz will always be seen as pussy racists that will not be welcomed back to SA with open arms... and so on.

I appreciate what you are trying to do, and kudo's to you, but this won't change my mind on how I view things.

Henineken, I think you need to reel it in a bit now, because you are making sweeping generalisations in a self-serving attempt to support your point of view.
I think there are a lot of NZers of PI descent who would strongly disagree with you regarding YOUR perception that they are PIs that play for NZ. My friends included. They are Fijians and Samoans who I ( from a Welsh immigrant family) came up through school with. They speak in the same NZ accent as I do, and have had the same opportunities I have coming up through the NZ public school system.

Ditto goes for your view that all SA's that immigrate are racist.
I met plently of Saffas whilst working in Australia and didn't hear one racist comment from any of them.

"Non Nzers will always see NZ as poaching the pacific islands"
Well- that just shows your ignorance. You obviously have little grasp of NZ society, and more specifically Auckland and it's mutliculturalism.

So let me get this straight; it's OK for white people to play for NZ, but NOT PIs?
Why? most white families in NZ have only been here 4 generations max. What makes it OK for a person of English descent, but not for a person of Samoan descent?

Mate- your views are ignorant at best - offensive at worst.
In fact, your posts probably reflect YOUR views on race more than anything else.

 

[Draggs]

Henineken, I think you need to reel it in a bit now, because you are making sweeping generalisations in a self-serving attempt to support your point of view.
I think there are a lot of NZers of PI descent who would strongly disagree with you regarding YOUR perception that they are PIs that play for NZ. My friends included. They are Fijians and Samoans who I ( from a Welsh immigrant family) came up through school with. They speak in the same NZ accent as I do, and have had the same opportunities I have coming up through the NZ public school system.

Ditto goes for your view that all SA's that immigrate are racist.
I met plently of Saffas whilst working in Australia and didn't hear one racist comment from any of them.

"Non Nzers will always see NZ as poaching the pacific islands"
Well- that just shows your ignorance. You obviously have little grasp of NZ society, and more specifically Auckland and it's mutliculturalism.

So let me get this straight; it's OK for white people to play for NZ, but NOT PIs?
Why? most white families in NZ have only been here 4 generations max. What makes it OK for a person of English descent, but not for a person of Samoan descent?

Mate- your views are ignorant at best - offensive at worst.
In fact, your posts probably reflect YOUR views on race more than anything else.

How recently, and can you play tighthead?

Jersey will be in post shortly.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i was a pretty handy hooker in my day...and worked with a welsh bloke for a few years...he's still a friend on facebook...does that count?

 

[FlukeArtist]

Haha Haven't played prop for years Draggs

In fact; I am now a hooker converted to halfback ...less contact in the backs you know (ie: i've gone soft)

 

[Draggs]

Haha Haven't played prop for years Draggs

In fact; I am now a hooker converted to halfback ...less contact in the backs you know (ie: i've gone soft)

Seemingly, it is the same with some of our frontrowers.

Jabby, if you are Jason Rutledge, I will personally fly down and collect you.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i can only aspire to his greatness

 

[Sam Owen]

Either way you want to look at any of this scenarios. the fact will always remain, Non-NZ's will always see NZ as poaching pacific islanders, no matter what the stats say or how much convincing there will be made. SA Expats moving to Oz will always be seen as pussy racists that will not be welcomed back to SA with open arms... and so on.

I appreciate what you are trying to do, and kudo's to you, but this won't change my mind on how I view things.

This subject is somewhat of an annual topic here on TRF, so a lot of the kiwi posters (whos attention was annoyingly enticed by the name of this thread) have replied with posts similar to those of the last time this kind of topic arose. However I think the Kiwis must understand that this is how the All Blacks are seen from an overseas Rugby fan perspective as is the case with Heiny. Now I dont agree with it 'cos you have to live in NZ to know All Blacks dont really poach, they have scouts in the islands but thats another story that we've already been through. Speaking of been through, there is a reason why this topic pops up quite a bit and thats because (like I said before) that is the view of many non-NZ Rugby fans of the All Blacks, no matter what spike of annoyance heiny might serve it with.

 

[admartian]

Henineken, I think you need to reel it in a bit now, because you are making sweeping generalisations in a self-serving attempt to support your point of view.
I think there are a lot of NZers of PI descent who would strongly disagree with you regarding YOUR perception that they are PIs that play for NZ. My friends included. They are Fijians and Samoans who I ( from a Welsh immigrant family) came up through school with. They speak in the same NZ accent as I do, and have had the same opportunities I have coming up through the NZ public school system.

Ditto goes for your view that all SA's that immigrate are racist.
I met plently of Saffas whilst working in Australia and didn't hear one racist comment from any of them.

"Non Nzers will always see NZ as poaching the pacific islands"
Well- that just shows your ignorance. You obviously have little grasp of NZ society, and more specifically Auckland and it's mutliculturalism.

So let me get this straight; it's OK for white people to play for NZ, but NOT PIs?
Why? most white families in NZ have only been here 4 generations max. What makes it OK for a person of English descent, but not for a person of Samoan descent?

Mate- your views are ignorant at best - offensive at worst.
In fact, your posts probably reflect YOUR views on race more than anything else.

Absolutely this. My main issue was the ignorant assumption that NZ does this to any (remotely) significant level.

 

[donmcdazzle]

This subject is somewhat of an annual topic here on TRF, so a lot of the kiwi posters (whos attention was annoyingly enticed by the name of this thread) have replied with posts similar to those of the last time this kind of topic arose. However I think the Kiwis must understand that this is how the All Blacks are seen from an overseas Rugby fan perspective as is the case with Heiny. Now I dont agree with it 'cos you have to live in NZ to know All Blacks dont really poach, they have scouts in the islands but thats another story that we've already been through. Speaking of been through, there is a reason why this topic pops up quite a bit and thats because (like I said before) that is the view of many non-NZ Rugby fans of the All Blacks, no matter what spike of annoyance heiny might serve it with.

Does my head in. The islands benefit from us waaaay more than we benefit from them. Most of the Samoan national team played school rugby/provincial rugby here and got developed in our systems, half of them are even born NZers. Scouts in the islands is good for Samoan/other island nations as most of these scouted players (I don't think there are even many players brought in this way by the way) won't make the All Blacks (see the above stat about the minimal number of foreign born AB's), so will then go back and play for Samoa/Tonga/Fiji way better players than they would be if they stayed over there. You should be encouraging scouting and praying more players get brought over for schoolboy rugby here.

 

[Sam Owen]

Does my head in. The islands benefit from us waaaay more than we benefit from them. Most of the Samoan national team played school rugby/provincial rugby here and got developed in our systems, half of them are even born NZers. Scouts in the islands is good for Samoan/other island nations as most of these scouted players (I don't think there are even many players brought in this way by the way) won't make the All Blacks (see the above stat about the minimal number of foreign born AB's), so will then go back and play for Samoa/Tonga/Fiji way better players than they would be if they stayed over there. You should be encouraging scouting and praying more players get brought over for schoolboy rugby here.

Who said scouts is bad?..hope you not jumping to conclusions mate cos then your doing your own head in. Samoans love the scouts, the scouts are Samoan!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i was a scout....got patches and everything

 

[Sam Owen]

i was a scout....got patches and everything

Lol. I was an All Black had my fair share of heimlich manouveres and everything

 

[donmcdazzle]

Who said scouts is bad?..hope you not jumping to conclusions mate cos then your doing your own head in. Samoans love the scouts, the scouts are Samoan!

Sorry I thought you were having a dig at NZ for sending over scouts to poach players or whatever.

 

[Sam Owen]

Sorry I thought you were having a dig at NZ for sending over scouts to poach players or whatever.

All good, shouldve PM me that.

Nah I just wanted the Kiwis to understand why they always have this discussion about player poaching every so and so.

 

[smartcooky]

No I get this, but this still gives the impression that while they immigrate to NZ, they are still seen as Pacific Islanders, and that they go to NZ for better opportunities

Its is actually their PARENTS who emigrated to NZ for the better opportunities,

As I pointed out earlier, there have only ever been FOUR All Blacks (out of over 1100) who were Pacific Islanders who emigrated or came to New Zealand as Adults; Alama Ieremia, John Schuster and Saimone Taumoepeau (Samoa) and Joeli Vidiri (Fiji)

ALL other Pacific Island born players who have ever played for the All Blacks (about 30 of them) were born in their respective countries and emigrated to New Zealand with their parents, then grew up here through the NZ education system.

In fact; I am now a hooker converted to halfback

OK, so what does that make you? ....a mouthy, cheating, treasonous scum-bag with a smart-arsed attitude, who thinks he knows the Laws better than the referee and is not afraid to tell him so!!!

 

[InsaneAsylum]

OK, so what does that make you? ....a mouthy, cheating, treasonous scum-bag with a smart-arsed attitude, who thinks he knows the Laws better than the referee and is not afraid to tell him so!!!

nah, FlukeArtist looks nothing like Richie McCaw.

JUST KIDDING JUST KIDDING

 

[admartian]

nah, FlukeArtist looks nothing like Richie McCaw.

JUST KIDDING JUST KIDDING

Cheat Black pride!

 

[FlukeArtist]

treasonous[/U] scum-bag with a smart-arsed attitude, who thinks he knows the Laws better than the referee and is not afraid to tell him so!!!

have I played against you before...?