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Aussies 'stealing' NZ players

Sam Owen said:
This subject is somewhat of an annual topic here on TRF, so a lot of the kiwi posters (whos attention was annoyingly enticed by the name of this thread) have replied with posts similar to those of the last time this kind of topic arose. However I think the Kiwis must understand that this is how the All Blacks are seen from an overseas Rugby fan perspective as is the case with Heiny. Now I dont agree with it 'cos you have to live in NZ to know All Blacks dont really poach, they have scouts in the islands but thats another story that we've already been through. Speaking of been through, there is a reason why this topic pops up quite a bit and thats because (like I said before) that is the view of many non-NZ Rugby fans of the All Blacks, no matter what spike of annoyance heiny might serve it with.
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It dosn't matter if that is "how overseas fans see things"
Anyone who has been on these boards long enough would have read a thread similar to this before and should know better.
Trying to excuse their ignorance by claiming "that is how others overseas see it" when they themselves know better is either:
a) Trolling, or
b) Trying to perpetuate a mistruth.
 
Haha. Poor Heiny. Implying that 'New Zealand poach' is sadly a sure fire way to get an online blitzkreig. Funny how I've noticed smartcookie, Sam, Fluke, donmcdazzle and myself all post on this exact issue probably 4-5 times in the last 3-4 years. This is actually light - thousand word posts with a list of every player ever and where they were born is floating somewhere around the forum - in the threads of the damned.

I think you were meaning to say that the perception that New Zealand poach from the Pacific Islands exists especially outside New Zealand - which is true. Not that we poach, but that the perception exists. It's a shame, because as others have pointed out it is actually quite a harmful perception that Pacific Islanders are Pacific Islanders over New Zealanders - when I think there clearly is a duality of culture and nationality - in the same way an Afircan American is no less of an American than anyone else - regardless of being proud of his heritage. Comes part in parcel with a multicultural society. One thing I find ironic is one of my mates who is Samoan and can trace his family back here four generations is viewed by some as less of a 'New Zealander' than myself - in which all my grandparents are born in England.
 
The accusations of NZ poaching levelled in the past England fans have largely fallen silent.

Why?

Well, its because in the entire history of the All Blacks have only ever selected & played four Pacific Islanders who came to New Zealand as adults.

England, on the other hand have had eight... twice an many

Perry Freshwater
Henry Paul
Mark van Gisbergen
Dylan Hartley
Riki Flutey
Thomas Waldrom
Shontayne Hape
Dylan Hartley

And trust me, if they could have Nick Evans, they would do so in a heartbeat.
 
smartcooky said:
The accusations of NZ poaching levelled in the past England fans have largely fallen silent.

Why?

Well, its because in the entire history of the All Blacks have only ever selected & played four Pacific Islanders who came to New Zealand as adults.

England, on the other hand have had eight... twice an many

Perry Freshwater
Henry Paul
Mark van Gisbergen
Dylan Hartley
Riki Flutey
Thomas Waldrom
Shontayne Hape
Dylan Hartley

And trust me, if they could have Nick Evans, they would do so in a heartbeat.
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Is that list from the top of your head cookie? Sure there are more than that. Lesley Vainikolo comes to mind (who played League in England in 2002, aged 22). To be fair to Hartley - he did actually go to England before he finished school.
 
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TRF_nickdnz said:
Is that list from the top of your head cookie? Sure there are more than that. Lesley Vainikolo comes to mind (who played League in England in 2002, aged 22). To be fair to Hartley - he did actually go to England before he finished school.
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Yes, the list is from the top of my head, there will be others

I thought Hartley went when he was 18. I might be wrong about him

Lesley Vainakolo was Tongan
 
smartcooky said:
The accusations of NZ poaching levelled in the past England fans have largely fallen silent.

Why?

Well, its because in the entire history of the All Blacks have only ever selected & played four Pacific Islanders who came to New Zealand as adults.

England, on the other hand have had eight... twice an many

Perry Freshwater
Henry Paul
Mark van Gisbergen
Dylan Hartley
Riki Flutey
Thomas Waldrom
Shontayne Hape
Dylan Hartley

And trust me, if they could have Nick Evans, they would do so in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

That's just Kiwi's. Add the others and it becomes almost worrying LOL. Hendre Fourie, Mouritz Botha, Brad Barritt all very recent though TBF they're only fringe players (and we don't care as they wouldn't have made the Bok squad anyway).
 
smartcooky said:
Yes, the list is from the top of my head, there will be others

I thought Hartley went when he was 18. I might be wrong about him

Lesley Vainakolo was Tongan
Click to expand...
Think Hartley was 12/13 when he moved (sure I read that before).
You've named him twice anyway :p
 
smartcooky said:
Yes, the list is from the top of my head, there will be others

I thought Hartley went when he was 18. I might be wrong about him

Lesley Vainakolo was Tongan
Click to expand...

Ahh right. I didn't quite get we were just naming New Zealand born players. That being said - Vainikolo was born in Tonga, grew up in New Zealand and played for the Kiwis moved to England and made their national team and now plays in France - so I don't know what in the world you'd classify him as.

TRF_Olyy said:
Think Hartley was 12/13 when he moved (sure I read that before).
Click to expand...

Nope. He went to Rotorua Boys High School where he was captained by Liam Messam in the 1st XV. Moved to England at 17 (left on holiday at 16). I guess he considers himself English enough now though.
 
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@ All NZ'ers posting in this thread.

Once again I humbly apologise. My intention wasn't to be arrogant or ignorant, and I appreciate your defensive stance, just like I would do for the Boks.

My perceptions are based on the media, and what we (I) read in newspapers, websites and blogs, and here of course. I'm here to broaden my views on rugby, and get more educated on things I don't agree with/ don't understand/ misread/ disagree with. This forum won't be such a happy place as we all would think if we all would've agreed on everything.

Perhaps my ignorance struck a chord which it shouldn't have, but I'm glad it did so that I now understand better what the situation is in NZ and specifically the Pacific Islanders debacle.

I must admit that I didn't read the previous threads surrounding this topic, as it must have been here before I joined late in 2010 but only really started participating in 2011.

Once again, I'm sorry
 
heineken said:
@ All NZ'ers posting in this thread.
Once again I humbly apologise. My intention wasn't to be arrogant or ignorant, and I appreciate your defensive stance, just like I would do for the Boks.
My perceptions are based on the media, and what we (I) read in newspapers, websites and blogs, and here of course. I'm here to broaden my views on rugby, and get more educated on things I don't agree with/ don't understand/ misread/ disagree with. This forum won't be such a happy place as we all would think if we all would've agreed on everything.
Perhaps my ignorance struck a chord which it shouldn't have, but I'm glad it did so that I now understand better what the situation is in NZ and specifically the Pacific Islanders debacle.
I must admit that I didn't read the previous threads surrounding this topic, as it must have been here before I joined late in 2010 but only really started participating in 2011.
Once again, I'm sorry
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Aww man - we can't stay mad at you. :itsok::buddies:
 
FlukeArtist said:
It dosn't matter if that is "how overseas fans see things"
Anyone who has been on these boards long enough would have read a thread similar to this before and should know better.
Trying to excuse their ignorance by claiming "that is how others overseas see it" when they themselves know better is either:
a) Trolling, or
b) Trying to perpetuate a mistruth.
Click to expand...

Oh chill out flukey that is not the case. No one is either this or that just because you said so.

Every year this debate pops up from someone either new to the forum or some temporary poster. Dont you think it could be how the world actually sees it? and if not why does someone different from outside NZ bring it up from time to time?

You dont seem to have the ability to try and look at it from there view.

Im not trying to excuse it, Im trying to listen to others, Im trying to find out why different posters from outside NZ raise this from time to time. Think about it with an open mind not a tunnelled one.
 
TRF_nickdnz said:
I think you were meaning to say that the perception that New Zealand poach from the Pacific Islands exists especially outside New Zealand - which is true. Not that we poach, but that the perception exists. It's a shame, because as others have pointed out it is actually quite a harmful perception that Pacific Islanders are Pacific Islanders over New Zealanders - when I think there clearly is a duality of culture and nationality - in the same way an Afircan American is no less of an American than anyone else - regardless of being proud of his heritage. Comes part in parcel with a multicultural society.
Click to expand...

Yes exactly, this is what I was talking about
 
smartcooky said:
The accusations of NZ poaching levelled in the past England fans have largely fallen silent.

Why?

Well, its because in the entire history of the All Blacks have only ever selected & played four Pacific Islanders who came to New Zealand as adults.

England, on the other hand have had eight... twice an many

Perry Freshwater
Henry Paul
Mark van Gisbergen
Dylan Hartley
Riki Flutey
Thomas Waldrom
Shontayne Hape
Dylan Hartley

And trust me, if they could have Nick Evans, they would do so in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

Mark van Gisbergen played for England?

Suprised no one has mentioned Sean Maitland moving to Scotland...
 
In response to saying that us Aussies are racist I'm sure we have our fair share just like everywhere but mostly I think foreigners misunderstand our humor as racism
 

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