Aviva Premiership 16/17 - Round 17

[BRSTLDRGN]

You get the sense that Bath are playing it by ear and sort of making up as they go along. Hastings not having the best of games, poor kicking and apart from the ofload for Dentons missed try, has barely attacked the Wasps defence.

Obviously a follow on from the demoralising loss last week

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nathan Hughes wasn't even playing super rugby when Wasps identified him and brought him over.

Oh yeah... just plucked out of the ether, he was...*

*"The Ether" being the Auckland Blues academy/development system!

 

[HenryChinaski]

Oh yeah... just plucked out of the ether, he was...*

*"The Ether" being the Auckland Blues academy/development system!

I'm not saying we plucked him out of nowhere. He was already a good player....just like there are loads of good players who don't and won't get picked up by other clubs. But he's got a lot better at Wasps...

 

[ratsapprentice]

He was in their academy!

The way you describe it he had already reached his limit with them.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Which, of course, was never an excuse when Bath were busting the salary cap by aug IMG a bunch of academy kids to their first senior contract

I for one have never pilloried a club on the basis of a salary cap. It's not about making excuses, it's just the simple fact that loads of people like to think of Wasps as just a club of big marquee signings.

- - - Updated - - -

He was in their academy!

The way you describe it he had already reached his limit with them.

My point is just that Wasps don't always simply fish out final products off the shelf as some like to think. Yes, Hughes would probably have got better while in the Blues Academy but at that point was far from a finished article. Some people will just see the end product which is that he's now capped for England and an increasingly big name. There was a journey in between those two points. Wasps amongst other things identified he was ready to regular top level rugby and gave it to him.

 

[Which Tyler]

I don't think that is Wasps' reputation TBH, or not amongst those who actually follow the game.

Of course, people also said the same about Bath, when we signed a bunch of academy kids who went on to improve and earn England caps, the assumption was that we must be paying them England starter wages for their first senior contract.

You guys have a number of players signed as the finished article, but I don't think wasps' rep is that they only sign established stars.

 

[Raggs]

He was in their academy!

The way you describe it he had already reached his limit with them.

He'd been turned down a senior contract, so clearly they didn't think he was ready. From memory he barely played AP rugby in his first few months, with appearances in the LV and A-league. He really didn't come across as an amazing player, to be turned down for a senior contract for the blues suggests they didn't rate him too highly either (he was hardly a kid by then).

 

[HenryChinaski]

He'd been turned down a senior contract, so clearly they didn't think he was ready. From memory he barely played AP rugby in his first few months, with appearances in the LV and A-league. He really didn't come across as an amazing player, to be turned down for a senior contract for the blues suggests they didn't rate him too highly either (he was hardly a kid by then).

It took some time for him to get in front of Ed Jackson in the queue...Ed Jackson!

 

[ratsapprentice]

They didn't rate him ready for SR. If he played well enough in the NPC to suggest he was ready for SR then I'm sure they would have signed him.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Stooke! Completely forgot about Elliott Stooke...he looked a prospect with Gloucester

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Bath looking lethargic and clueless, it's like they aren't being coached. There is no team chemistry with individuals frequently running well away from their support. Bath really don't have very intelligent players and after a period of winning poorly we are back to losing and having absolutely no idea what we are doing.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't think that is Wasps' reputation TBH, or not amongst those who actually follow the game.

Of course, people also said the same about Bath, when we signed a bunch of academy kids who went on to improve and earn England caps, the assumption was that we must be paying them England starter wages for their first senior contract.

You guys have a number of players signed as the finished article, but I don't think wasps' rep is that they only sign established stars.

Who are these academy players that you signed and earnt international caps? Or are you living in Bath la la land?

Can't be Ford or Joesph. The so you must be talking about Watson hardly a bunch.


At least the players wasps did "poach" where genuine finds from nowhere pretty much. (Although Young isn't fooling anyone about the star players).

 

[HenryChinaski]

Bath looking lethargic and clueless, it's like they aren't being coached. There is no team chemistry with individuals frequently running well away from their support. Bath really don't have very intelligent players and after a period of winning poorly we are back to losing and having absolutely no idea what we are doing.

Yeah they've been truly terrible. Error count pretty incredible.
I don't even think Wasps have been that great. Cipriani has been poor for me.

 

[Which Tyler]

Who are these academy players that you signed and earnt international caps? Or are you living in Bath la la land?

Can't be Ford or Joesph. The so you must be talking about Watson hardly a bunch.

Well. Ford and Joseph were signed from academies, as was Watson. None were capped before arrival in Bath either.

And yes, we know you think otherwise, and that they were signed on wages appropriate for established internationals.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Well. Ford and Joseph were signed from academies, as was Watson. None were capped before arrival in Bath either.

And yes, we know you think otherwise, and that they were signed on wages appropriate for established internationals.

Joesph was already international capped before Bath for starters.

Ford was already on a senior contract with Tigers as as Joesph at Bath.
Ford had 41 caps for Tigers and would of tour with England with them had Cockers not held him back to beef up.
Joesph had 60+ caps for Irish.

So I guess you are living in bath la la land.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Joesph was already international capped before Bath for starters.

Ford was already on a senior contract with Tigers as as Joesph at Bath.
Ford had 41 caps for Tigers and would of tour with England with them had Cockers not held him back to beef up.
Joesph had 60+ caps for Irish.

So I guess you are living in bath la la land.

And Ford had got young player of the year in 2011. The two players before him to win the award were Julien Savea and Aaron Cruden. Unlikely that they were going to pay him peanuts!

 

[Which Tyler]

Joesph was already international capped before Bath for starters.

Ford was already on a senior contract with Tigers as as Joesph at Bath.
Ford had 41 caps for Tigers and would of tour with England with them had Cockers not held him back to beef up.
Joesph had 60+ caps for Irish.

So I guess you are living in bath la la land.

You're right on JJ, he'd had about 150 minutes for England before signing for Bath; but we had to pay LI compensation for JJ and Watson for signing a player from their academy - we only didn't for Ford because we learned the lesson from the previous 2, and didn't announce the signing until that deadline has passed.

How many times a player has played for a club is, of course, utterly irrelevant to whether they're in the academy or on a senior contract.

I'm not claiming we paid them peanuts; I'm claiming that we didn't pay them "established international" wages (or Eastmond either at that stage - though at least he was just about established in a different code). We do now, but claiming that we did in their first contract is refusal to admit to reality.
Claiming that we did is living in anti-Bath la la land.


Moving on though, you'll be amazed to hear - I've heard your arguments before, and they're still bull****.
Equally, I'm sure you've heard my arguments before, and consider them to be bull****.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Excellent start for Bristol that

 

[ratsapprentice]

Gwarn Wuss (ne'er thought I say that).

 

[ratsapprentice]

Their marquee signings serving them exactly as intended.