Aviva Premiership 16/17 - Round 5

[ncurd]

Can we just stop televising Bath games from all account we do far better when we don't.

That was **** game God I wish I hadn't avoided the score all day to watch it. Think it really shows are injury list if we could have some real centers and not wingers masquerading we may have a chance. Biggest loss in the last 2 years has been Stringer I'd give my right arm for a scent scrummie.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can we just stop televising Bath games from all account we do far better when we don't.

We're exactly the same, our worst showings are always on tv
Next friday is gonna be....interesting.
Almost not gutted I'll be at work

 

[j'nuh]

Can't believe we are only 5 games into the season and it already looks like a write-off for Gloucester.

 

[Which Tyler]

Can we just stop televising Bath games from all account we do far better when we don't.

That was **** game God I wish I hadn't avoided the score all day to watch it. Think it really shows are injury list if we could have some real centers and not wingers masquerading we may have a chance. Biggest loss in the last 2 years has been Stringer I'd give my right arm for a scent scrummie.

Fortunately, we have Fotuali'i now; who's looking like the league's best signing.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Good going Quins stopping Wasps from getting 50 huge achievement.

 

[Geordie]

Well it's time Dean Richards went.

That was some of the most appalling attacking play I have seen in an awfully long time. Inept, boring predicable

We dominated possession in the first half yet could barely get 3 points. A poor Worcester side had to do nothing to win.

And when we can't score a try we revert to KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK

Time to go Dean. Get a head coach with vision and ambition and bring some young hungry coaches who can implement that.

We actually have a squad of good players they're just not being used at all well.

 

[BPM]

Well it's time Dean Richards went.

That was some of the most appalling attacking play I have seen in an awfully long time. Inept, boring predicable

We dominated possession in the first half yet could barely get 3 points. A poor Worcester side had to do nothing to win.

And when we can't score a try we revert to KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK

Time to go Dean. Get a head coach with vision and ambition and bring some young hungry coaches who can implement that.

We actually have a squad of good players they're just not being used at all well.

I'd happily have Richards back at Quins (can't see that ever happening though!).

Saturday'a result aside, I think he's done a good job for Falcons. Signings are always a mixed bag, but there's some gems in there like Olmstead and you're certainly looking stronger than you have in recent years.

I also think he's doing a reasonable job of bringing the younger players through.

 

[ALJ]

Can't believe we are only 5 games into the season and it already looks like a write-off for Gloucester.

I think that's 1 win in 7 at Kingsholm now.

There's so much I don't understand:
Rotation policy, positional selection, game plan (says something that it looks better than last year and yet I still don't know what it is), decision making, insistence on persevering with Dawidiuk, recruitment policy (re-signed Atkinson and Halafonoua, let Meekes go - might not have had a choice there to be fair), why we only win non-crucial line outs and why our replacement front row can't scrummage.

Yes, we have a few players missing but realistically only Thrush, May & Marshall (only out for this game) are first team starters so I don't think that can be used as an excuse.

Our website lists 21 members of the coaching staff (yes, twenty one - Sarries list 6, Leicester list 7) - you have to wonder....

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think that's 1 win in 7 at Kingsholm now.

There's so much I don't understand:
Rotation policy, positional selection, game plan (says something that it looks better than last year and yet I still don't know what it is), decision making, insistence on persevering with Dawidiuk, recruitment policy (re-signed Atkinson and Halafonoua, let Meekes go - might not have had a choice there to be fair), why we only win non-crucial line outs and why our replacement front row can't scrummage.

Yes, we have a few players missing but realistically only Thrush, May & Marshall (only out for this game) are first team starters so I don't think that can be used as an excuse.

Our website lists 21 members of the coaching staff (yes, twenty one - Sarries list 6, Leicester list 7) - you have to wonder....

What's wrong with Atkinson and where did Meakes go, must have missed that in the news.

Always thought Atkinson and Purdy looked like two promising English player. Might be wrong though as I haven't seen enough of them.

 

[ALJ]

What's wrong with Atkinson and where did Meakes go, must have missed that in the news.

Always thought Atkinson and Purdy looked like two promising English player. Might be wrong though as I haven't seen enough of them.

Meakes ran off to Western Force. Can't really blame him I guess but it sticks a bit as we gave him his chance at the top level.

Purdy is very promising I think but he's feeding off scraps at the moment.

I know what you mean about Atkinson looking promising but he's 26 now and just hasn't kicked on imho.
For a 6'5" 17st player he should be an aggressive defender (doesn't seem to be) and a lot better at the crash ball but never seems to try it, instead he relies on his (poor) sidestep and rarely makes ground. Doesn't seem to have a kicking game, can't say as his distribution looks anything special and seems to be running through treacle (all kinda weird when he supposedly started out as a 10).
Maybe he's just struggling for form but If so, you then have to wonder why he's starting over Twelvetrees.

 

[Raggs]

Atkinson seems to regularly get you over the gainline when I'm watching, always looking for the offload too, rarely throws it if it's not on. Is he going to challenge internationally? Probably not, but he seems like he should be a useful tool.

 

[ALJ]

Atkinson seems to regularly get you over the gainline when I'm watching, always looking for the offload too, rarely throws it if it's not on. Is he going to challenge internationally? Probably not, but he seems like he should be a useful tool.

He should be a more than useful tool, yet somehow it isn't working.

I guess it depends on what you mean about getting over the gainline - he doesn't get pushed back but nor does he get beyond the first line of defence (by that I mean they take him down at the point of contact).

True enough on the off-load point but shouldn't every player be able to do that?

To be fair to him, there seems to be a broader malaise at Gloucester at the moment and maybe he's just suffering from that.

I'm not his biggest fan but right now, Twelvetrees should probably be starting at 12 and Andy Symons seems to be cut from the same cloth as Atkinson (their vital statistics are remarkably similar) so it will be interesting to get a look at him when he's fit.

 

[Raggs]

Shouldn't every player be able to pass accurately off both hands in the heat of the moment, drawing the tackle and releasing the ball? Shouldn't every back be able to ping the ball to the corners? Shouldn't every fly half be able to kick accurately off of both legs? Yes. Can they? No. He always seems to make a few meters past the point of contact, even if that's not reaching the gainline, with another big runner coming off him it should be effective. I'm watching slowly through the glaws bath game, their forwards seem to be OK, but in attack, when there's quick ball and a bit of disorganisation, no one seems to have a clue as to what they're supposed to do next.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Shouldn't every player be able to pass accurately off both hands in the heat of the moment, drawing the tackle and releasing the ball? Shouldn't every back be able to ping the ball to the corners? Shouldn't every fly half be able to kick accurately off of both legs? Yes. Can they? No. He always seems to make a few meters past the point of contact, even if that's not reaching the gainline, with another big runner coming off him it should be effective. I'm watching slowly through the glaws bath game, their forwards seem to be OK, but in attack, when there's quick ball and a bit of disorganisation, no one seems to have a clue as to what they're supposed to do next.

I always think that and am amazed at the amount of backs playing in the uk who can't do the basics. They might be 17 stone but if they can't pass of both hands you're not really that useful.

Saying that though, many people who have played for England couldn't do that. In fact I bet a few in the squad now will struggle under pressure.

 

[Raggs]

I suspect that they can all do it just fine in training, but doing it in a match is very different. Huge amounts of pressure. It's why I'm pleased that Wasps pushed through with their gameplan, even when a lot of ball was getting dropped, or it was raining. Now people are far better at executing skills under pressure, and we end up with an extremely high conversion rate with regards to opportunities becoming tries.

 

[ALJ]

Shouldn't every player be able to pass accurately off both hands in the heat of the moment, drawing the tackle and releasing the ball? Shouldn't every back be able to ping the ball to the corners? Shouldn't every fly half be able to kick accurately off of both legs? Yes. Can they? No. He always seems to make a few meters past the point of contact, even if that's not reaching the gainline, with another big runner coming off him it should be effective.

I'm not sure those comparisons stack up tbh - In discussing kicking accurately off both feet or split second decision making, you're comparing specialist skills at the highest level against what should be a basic skill that all players should have.
To compare the two, I'd say you're looking at Sonny-Bill Williams level of offloading.

I take your point that not all players are good at offloading but when you're discussing a 12, I think he needs more than a half-decent offload to playing in the EPL.

I'm watching slowly through the glaws bath game, their forwards seem to be OK, but in attack, when there's quick ball and a bit of disorganisation, no one seems to have a clue as to what they're supposed to do next.

You've hit the nail on the head - First phase we're OK, but in subsequent phases (unless driving it up), we look very short of structure and ideas. Essentially we seem to be relying on moments of brilliance from individuals, which isn't going to get it done often enough.
It's actually better this year than last but still leaves a lot to be desired.

Saying all of this, I think we have a decent squad and was optimistic coming into the season - but the first half against Leicester aside, we just haven't really performed (yet!).
To give some context - We didn't perform well in the Bath game but the performance was a damn sight better than it was against Newcastle.

 

[Raggs]

I've finished it now, and I've not changed my opinion. Attack just doesn't seem to know what to do with itself after a few phases, or if there's been multiple offloads (meaning key players are likely on the floor). Normally I moan about Laidlaw's distribution, but it was fine and fast enough, but at times there were just no good options. Wonder if the same isn't happening in defence, with players just not communicating with each other.

Guess that's a big advantage Wasps have at the moment, with 4 players that can play 1st receiver, it means we've nearly always got 1 option available at all times, if not two to split the field.

 

[ALJ]

I've finished it now, and I've not changed my opinion. Attack just doesn't seem to know what to do with itself after a few phases, or if there's been multiple offloads (meaning key players are likely on the floor). Normally I moan about Laidlaw's distribution, but it was fine and fast enough, but at times there were just no good options. Wonder if the same isn't happening in defence, with players just not communicating with each other.

That's about the size of it.

Tbh, Laidlaw is pretty popular in these parts, don't have a problem with his distribution (it's a damn sight better then Heinz anyway). Weirdly (considering his experience), it's his decision making as captain that seems a little suspect - should have taken the 3 points in the closing stages against Leicester (not a gimme but at worst it would have run the clock down) and should probably have given the two long kicks at goal on Saturday to Hook.

You might be right in defence, although tbh I think it's more to do with us coughing the ball up too often and putting ourselves under constant pressure.

Guess that's a big advantage Wasps have at the moment, with 4 players that can play 1st receiver, it means we've nearly always got 1 option available at all times, if not two to split the field.

Yep, I envy you in that respect but then it doesn't happen by accident.

Although saying that, on Saturday we had 5 players on the pitch with experience at 10 - we should never be short of options really.