Banned substances in rugby

[Draggs]

Aww, look at little Harry Robinson in the next table.
Had a cousin who was always the 'big kid' in rugby. 5'6" when everybody was barely 5'. He stopped growing soon afterwards.

 

[Jaguares]

I disagree, Conrad.
In my opinion, there are not all that many top level rugby players who would be up to the standards required by the NFL, let alone to be standouts.
The NFL is comparable to Athletics and other Olympic sports in it's focus on pure athletic ability.
Rugby does not share this to anywhere near the level of those sports - if it did, Richie McCaw would not be a standout player.

Players in the NFL get banned for like 2 or 3 games if they get caught using PED's.
And their players have been doing for at least 25 years - Rugby players have only been systematically going to the gym for maybe 15-20 years.
I just do not accept that sort of "steroid culture" where it's seen as acceptable to a certain extent is prevalent in our sport.

When we start getting an entire league with the athletic ability of Eben Etzebeth then we need to be worried.

Although to be frank - and to be clear - I'm not exactly staunchly anti-PED.

It's true that the NFL is more focused on athletics as their players have very specific functions. If you are a wide receiver in the NFL, you just have to worry about attacking while a wing from Rugby have to worry about attacking and defending at the same time and must run for 80 minutes, while a wide receiver from NFL just run half game.

But still, there are many players in the NFL that stand out without being the best athletes. For example: Wes Welker, he isn't the fastest or strongest player in the league. However, he's a good receiver, has the correct technique without being Usain Bolt, he's one of the best at his position. I think many of the best rugby players could excel in the NFL like Wes Welker, they just have to find their position .

Of course, top rugby player they are very light compared than a defense tackle from NFL but as I said, the wingers could play like wide reicevers and loose forwards like Tight ends.

There isn't much difference between the best rugby players and the best NFL players. Top rugby players are great athletes, NFL players aren't superheroes. NFL have more money than any Rugby Tournament, but money isn't everything. Top rugby players train very hard.

Cheers

 

[ratsapprentice]

This thread reminded that I've been meaning to see this film since it came out - I have now and it's kinda relevant so I'll recommend it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1151309/

 

[jessta]

I have a sneaky suspicion eden edtzebeth is on the juice. To be 20 years old and 130+ kilos and that agile, quick and fit, he surley has had a few cycles. Ive heard when he first came into the stormers camp they had to dramatically increase there weights to accomodate him as everything was too light. Machine none the less

 

[ratsapprentice]

He's listed as 118kg, dunno where you heard he was 130+?

Someone with those stats looks more like this...

Dunno how our academy system let him go TBH.

 

[Patchey]

Who the hell is that and how big our his calves?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Lawrence Okoye...

6'6" 137kg played on the wing for Whitgift (same school team as Daly and Yarde) and Wasps and Irish academies.
Stopped rugby to do the Discus in the Olympics - broke the British record almost instantly.
Now in the NFL with the 49ers.

Dunno how good a player he was (don't think he played any England age grade) but we are talking about a true athletic freak here.
He's just on a completely different level to anyone I can think of in world rugby.

 

[Patchey]

I'd read about him but never actually seen a photo. Terrifying.

 

[Peat]

By all accounts he wasn't that great a rugby player. Not sure how reliable that is, but there we go. Doubt he'd be able to maintain that bulk and do 80 minutes of top level rugby anyway, although clearly big.

 

[Jaguares]

Lawrence Okoye...

6'6" 137kg played on the wing for Whitgift (same school team as Daly and Yarde) and Wasps and Irish academies.
Stopped rugby to do the Discus in the Olympics - broke the British record almost instantly.
Now in the NFL with the 49ers.

Dunno how good a player he was (don't think he played any England age grade) but we are talking about a true athletic freak here.
He's just on a completely different level to anyone I can think of in world rugby.

How RFU may lose a player like that? The "New Lomu", you might avenge what Lomu did to Mike Catt in RWC 95:



Lawrence is almost 30 kgs heavier than Manu Tuilagi and has little fat, we are talking about an Olympic athlete, OMG!!!!!!!!!

 

[Patchey]

I don't think he was ever in the England age group set up by the sound of it. Hence why the RFU 'missed' him.

 

[Jaguares]

By all accounts he wasn't that great a rugby player. Not sure how reliable that is, but there we go. Doubt he'd be able to maintain that bulk and do 80 minutes of top level rugby anyway, although clearly big.

I don't think he was ever in the England age group set up by the sound of it. Hence why the RFU 'missed' him.

He has a low fat percentage, so he can move with agility. Maybe he can't play like flanker but for him size, he could play at wing like Lomu, remember that Lomu wasn't so good player, he didn't have many skills, he simply was big and fast but lacked the skills of players like: Christian Cullen or Doug Howlett.

For me Lomu wasn't as good, but his size and speed helped him a lot. So I say, he could be the new Lomu, I never said he could be a great rugby player. (For me Lomu wasn't a great rugby player, was rather a great athlete)

Cheers

 

[McTallshort]

At Elite level no the risk to your career is too great, just below this then yes steriod use is not uncommon. Graig Chalmers son recently tested positive and there are lots of guys out there trying to land pro contracts and think the risk is worth it.

 

[Peat]

I don't think he was ever in the England age group set up by the sound of it. Hence why the RFU 'missed' him.

He was playing for Whitgift, he was in an academy. England age group selectors would have known who he was. They didn't want him. Mistake? Possibly. Then again, maybe it backs up the statement that he just wasn't very good at rugby. Seems hard to believe in such an athlete who's got the guts for American football - but maybe he didn't have the mind for it. Couldn't see space. Maybe he wasn't committed enough. I don't know. But rugby knew who he was and, as far as I can tell, just shrugged.

Even if they hadn't, no guarantee he'd have stuck with the sport. He walked away from possible greatness with a Discus where he was wanted to have a go at American Football. if someone doesn't want to do it, they don't want to do it.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Possible impact sub though....

I JUST WANT TO SEE IT HAPPEN.

 

[dasNdanger]

This is something that concerns me with the sport, too. I've wondered if banned substances have been or are being used. I would suspect that some players do dabble. However...

Since rugby has turned professional player conditioning certainly has changed as well. Before, with the amateur players, I'm sure that physical training and diet weren't stressed as they are now. Just better nutrition combined with more a stringent physical conditioning routine can have a huge effect on the size of the players. Also, it seems to me that in the pro era the taller players do seem to make the ranks, suggesting to me that a bit of 'natural selection' is also going on. That's why we don't see the Japanese team with its naturally smaller players winning games like the ABs. That's not to say that individual talent isn't there, but that those players who are naturally small in size perform better in a specific position (such as scrum half), rather than in every position on a team. (Did that make any sense?)

That said, I still do worry about performance enhancement drug abuse in the sport. I'm hoping that if it is going on it's isolated, and not a widespread problem, especially not with the game finally getting more attention worldwide.


das

 

[Da Grappla]

Not a good idea comparing NFL players to rugby ones...American football is a sport much more focused on explosive efforts while rugby union is much more a strenght-resistance sport. A comparative between Rugby League and gridiron football (let's include the canadians, why not?) would make more sense to me. And yes, League players are closer in size and athleticism to the americans.

This thread reminded that I've been meaning to see this film since it came out - I have now and it's kinda relevant so I'll recommend it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1151309/

Great doc...it shows how EVERYONE in the sport business is on steroids. Being caught with your pants down just depends on who you are and how good your medical staff advice and schedules were.

I have a past competing in judo, wrestling and grappling...even the most amateurs got their cycles. I even applied to be a firefighter (failed at the medical checking, ****ing colorblindness) and many guys were rejected because of doping. The sad thing was that most of the ones who made it into the Fire Department, were on the juice too...but better adviced to how and when cut off the roids.

 

[j-dawg]

Yes, it is a problem - especially amongst those trying to break into the proffessional system. I could name a bunch of players I have played with/against who have gone on to the proffessional game who took something they shouldn't have. Some are still there, some are not. At club level below nationals its almost comical picking out the guys who are on the juice.

A young England age group player got banned a couple of years ago because his school found 'drug paraphernalia' in his room (he was a boarder). Before that, gym training video's of him lifting some collosal weight had been uploaded onto youtube and pretty much as soon as they were uploaded the academy he was involved with (a pro team) rang him up and told him to take them down. I am under no illusions, they knew what was going on. Despite taking them down the press had an absolute field day when he was eventually caught. Many of the British users will probably remember in some form what I am talking about.

However I am happy to say that I know a bunch of players who have not taken anything and are currently coming through the Tigers academy system, one has even played for the first team.

 

[donmcdazzle]

He has a low fat percentage, so he can move with agility. Maybe he can't play like flanker but for him size, he could play at wing like Lomu, remember that Lomu wasn't so good player, he didn't have many skills, he simply was big and fast but lacked the skills of players like: Christian Cullen or Doug Howlett.

For me Lomu wasn't as good, but his size and speed helped him a lot. So I say, he could be the new Lomu, I never said he could be a great rugby player. (For me Lomu wasn't a great rugby player, was rather a great athlete)

Cheers

Pull your head in, Lomu was an awesome rugby player. He had a such good footwork, which you never see from equally big guys in rugby or other sports. He used to beat way more players with his in and away than by running over them. And he had a great ability to get offloads away with about 4 people hanging off him. He had great skill to go with his obvious physical attributes.

You're so ignorant about rugby if you think any big fast strong guy can be the same as Jonah.

 

[Jaguares]

Pull your head in, Lomu was an awesome rugby player. He had a such good footwork, which you never see from equally big guys in rugby or other sports. He used to beat way more players with his in and away than by running over them. And he had a great ability to get offloads away with about 4 people hanging off him. He had great skill to go with his obvious physical attributes.

You're so ignorant about rugby if you think any big fast strong guy can be the same as Jonah.

He was a good rugby player, but very overrated. Jonah Lomu is the most famous rugby player in history, but there were better players than him in his position.

Lomu made ​​many tries in RWC 95 and 99. Then people who don't look rugby and just look RWCs believe that he was the best. But for example: Christian Cullen has more tries in the Tri Nations than Lomu. Doug Howlett also has more tries than Lomu on ABs. Then Lomu is just that, the greatest idol of the people who don't follow rugby.

The true rugby supporters don't consider Lomu as the best rugby player in history, because they look rugby 365 days a year, they follow the Super Rugby, Tri Nations and other tournaments that Lomu was overtaken by several players. People who only follow the RWC think that Lomu is the God of rugby. I disagree.

I prefer Christian Cullen, Doug Howlett, Bryan Habana and others wingers. I don't even consider him as the best wing in rugby history.

Cheers