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"Best" Era in world Rugby history

no confrontation, no problem dude. I'm just laying out that sentiment. Enough silly online confrontation (not with you specifically, just anyone), let's just talk Rugby and not get angry at every single corner. Those are our genuine sentiments, at least from me, about the England team of circa 2003. We're not trying to take a stab at anyone. Just, eaaaaasy there - for everyone, me included.
 
He (Greenwood) was never a difference maker though.

Had England shared 50:50 ball possession and relied on 11 to 15 to win them the game, they wouldn't have won many against Aus, Fra, NZ and SA.

They had a pack that hogged possession, and a kicker who kicked just about everything.

Oh shut up you fool
 
I like how ***us says that England try isn't impressive then shows a try that is a guy running fast, in a straight line, and is only scored because Ashton literally stepped out of his way to avoid making a tackle.

Runing straight ... Mate this is exactly what French flair is ! Something you can't understand looking at English playing style and tradition ! The ability to see the gap in the defense and run through it ! Sometimes, sidesteps are totally useless if you need to run straight.
 
I don't know why you talk about a confrontation because the response was actually to someone else but it's just stupid to say the English backline weren't world beaters when they literally did beat the world. If the backs were merely "good" that would become a problem but it wasn't. England now have some very good forwards who I think could go toe to toe with most forwards of other nations yet it isn't leading to English dominance because our backs are weaker. I mean just who would people consider to have been the England superstars? Wilko and Johnson? I don't see how a team could be as successful as England were back there if most of our players would not be able to walk into other national teams as one of the best in their position, it just doesn't happen.

What is likely the case is people say more flair = superstar. England did not play with flair very much so very few of the players get superstar rating, despite outperforming everyone else.

Is it the so called English modesty ? And with that, you still say French are arrogant ???

First of all, if being a superstar would mean having flair, then no forward could be any superstar ... And I consider your 2003 forwards as superstars !

Then to come back to the absolute domination of your backs during this era, could you please tell me who scored during the 2003 semi-final ?
 
The best Era must be next year, with the biggest Rugby World Cup ever! :D:D:D
 
Runing straight ... Mate this is exactly what French flair is ! Something you can't understand looking at English playing style and tradition ! The ability to see the gap in the defense and run through it ! Sometimes, sidesteps are totally useless if you need to run straight.

don't mean to bombard the forum with this, but it does call to appear on this thread...



This is what French flair was. WAS, mind you ! :D The direction changing, not just standard passing out wide and run in the goal with the ball. Stepping, creating space, goes left, right, center, runs, ball lives, is offloaded, kicked, grabbed, thrown around...teams are hopeless at defending, they try with everything they've got, but they can't stop it, it's still coming anyways. I'm just happy it was France doing this, but I sincerely just love watching it for the aesthetics, regardless of which nation's doing it. Of course I'm biased because it's France though, no question about it. But I do love the All-Blacks of all eras for that, and have loved the Wallabies generally also. In terms of moving aesthetics and true attacking creativity, it is those three nations that have made me love the sport the way I do, loving forward play and everything else came later. The Islanders have always had tremendous athletes, but never as great attacking structure as those have had (still have, for NZ).
 
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Yep that's right BE, it is not standart passing out wide. Un bon vieux retour intérieur bien de chez nous !
We can call French flair, crazyness, because it is that after all. Running and passing without logic or any previously defined game plan. But, as I said before, we had to sacrify this because of the disciplin required by modern rugby ... A shame !
 
Yep that's right BE, it is not standart passing out wide. Un bon vieux retour intérieur bien de chez nous !
We can call French flair, crazyness, because it is that after all. Running and passing without logic or any previously defined game plan. But, as I said before, we had to sacrify this because of the disciplin required by modern rugby ... A shame !

that's exactly right. And I miss Pierre Salviac calling the games too on France 2 :lol: that "bordel", that craziness is French. Not just in Rugby, but generally. It's that cultural side of us, that 'complicated' side that allows us to author that prowess. If we weren't complicated and erratic, if we were perfectly pragmatic, we never could have produced French Flair.
 
Is it the so called English modesty ? And with that, you still say French are arrogant ???

First of all, if being a superstar would mean having flair, then no forward could be any superstar ... And I consider your 2003 forwards as superstars !

Then to come back to the absolute domination of your backs during this era, could you please tell me who scored during the 2003 semi-final ?

No it's a fact and no I've never called the French arrogant. Kindly take off your nationalist hat, more apparent by your signature. So we didn't score any tries in the semi final, so what? Things need to be in conxtext and England had try scoring opportunities but the French were infringing so much we just took penalties. 2 of the top 10 try scorers were English and both were backs with 5 tries each. France had 1 top try scorer with 4 tries.
 
No it's a fact and no I've never called the French arrogant. Kindly take off your nationalist hat, more apparent by your signature. So we didn't score any tries in the semi final, so what? Things need to be in conxtext and England had try scoring opportunities but the French were infringing so much we just took penalties. 2 of the top 10 try scorers were English and both were backs with 5 tries each. France had 1 top try scorer with 4 tries.

Come on ! My signature and the post you quoted are irony ! Just to make my best ennemies react like you did :p. That's fun to argue with you all ! Teasing, that's it ! And it is also part of rugby !!!

Back to 2003, I just talked about the semies, because all the points were scored by Wilko. It was just to remind you that your forwards had been exceptional during this WC, not your backs.
 
Come on ! My signature and the post you quoted are irony ! Just to make my best ennemies react like you did :p. That's fun to argue with you all ! Teasing, that's it ! And it is also part of rugby !!!

Back to 2003, I just talked about the semies, because all the points were scored by Wilko. It was just to remind you that your forwards had been exceptional during this WC, not your backs.

You quite clearly know nothing about the Semis nor what irony means. Educate yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjAfH3tILL8
It was absolutely pouring down with rain, that's not the sort of play that makes for many try scoring opportunities. The French try only came from an overthrown English lineout that the French forward then caught and ran to the try line, even then it is dubious it should have been a try.
 
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For me it's the 70's just, mainly off the back of the Lions tours to NZ in 71 and SA in 74. Some of those games were amazing in 74, a beauty and the beast scenario of brilliant football interspersed with plenty of biff. The great battles in the 5N between Wales and France. The French side in 72 that walloped England 37-15. My favourite all time player in Union was Jean-Pierre Rives. Fantastic at the breakdown and had great hands as well, which resulted in being able to get their backs moving. Pierre Villepreux (his best years in the 60's when they could be dazzling Gachassan etc), Jo Maso and plenty of others. What dismays me is how French Rugby has become so forward dominated. And I'm not alone. I've worked for three French companies and the older generation like myself shake their heads. One in particular stated that beau geste (beautiful Rugby) in France has all but disappeared. I remember one game a few years ago in the Top 14 where it took 6 minutes before a player carried the ball into the ruck because there was a kickfest going on to try and get field position.

The other highlight from the 70's was when the North turned over the AB's at Otley. An awful day with a howling wind, cold and grey, but a great result.
 
Is it the so called English modesty ? And with that, you still say French are arrogant ???

He's stating facts.
England were would beaters because they beat all of the top teams in the World.
We grandslammed the 6N, beat Australia and New Zealand away, and beat South Africa in England and in Australia (beat them in South Africa in 2000, too, if you want to stretch it back a bit).
We were literally world beaters.
 
Just to echo the @TRF_SelimNiai comment. If we don't go back on topic then I will clean the thread of de-railing post or the people involved will get a paddling.
 
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Right then, moved the football argument to the football thread.

Anyway, the best era....
 
Come on ! My signature and the post you quoted are irony ! Just to make my best ennemies react like you did :p. That's fun to argue with you all ! Teasing, that's it ! And it is also part of rugby !!!

Back to 2003, I just talked about the semies, because all the points were scored by Wilko. It was just to remind you that your forwards had been exceptional during this WC, not your backs.

While I kinda endorse what you say about the backs (although nowhere near as strident as they were still pretty decent), i was about to say (before ragerancher responded) that semi was a near wash out. The rain was bucketing down the whole day and the field was drenched (if anything that gave the French a glimmer of hope). While the French previously detested wet weather which hampered their free open running, the gulf in quality between the two teams was so vast that the rain actually made the game closer than it would have been. The rain was a leveller. England were a different class to every other team...as for the final the Aussies did an incredible job to get as close as they did.
 
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While I kinda endorse what you say about the backs (although nowhere near as strident as they were still pretty decent), i was about to say (before ragerancher responded) that semi was a near wash out. The rain was bucketing down the whole day and the field was drenched (if anything that gave the French a glimmer of hope). While the French previously detested wet weather which hampered their free open running, the gulf in quality between the two teams was so vast that the rain actually made the game closer than it would have been. The rain was a leveller. England were a different class to every other team...as for the final the Aussies did an incredible job to get as close as they did.

I disagree with all that. England were a *great* side, no doubt. But that they were a class above other teams is completely false, for me. The Boks were the worst ever in their history at the time, and then you had the Aussies and NZ'ers - the English beat those every time during that stretch but it wasn't comfortably. Again, Wilko doesn't make just *one* of those impossible kicks in NZ 2003 and England loses, England certainly weren't a class above NZ but their kicker's boot was gold; and a year before that game in Twickenham England barely edged NZ, were anything but a class above them. 3 tries to NZ's 4. And a week later another in extremis win against the Aussies at home. Although I see in 2003 they beat AUS in Melbourne 14-25, 3 tries to 1, not to mention beating the Aussies again at home for the Cup months later. Very impressive.
Remember then how they were trailing at HT against Samoa in the Pools though, only managed 1 Grand Slam during those 4 dominant years choking in the GS-decider each time.
There certainly wasn't a gulf betw France and England btw. In 2002 France beat England in Paris and won the GS, and though the score doesn't show it because as usual France let its opponent back into the game late *they* were the ones that looked a whole class above England that game. Try after try, and the ones we botched at the last second, it was a festival in the 1st half. In 2003 we get 3 tries to 1 in Twickenham and I posted that video about why we lost there. Wilko's boot vs all our missed sitters. We were out-played strategy wise in the 2003 semis and England were well better on that game because more intelligent, but we certainly didn't look a a level below on the field in terms of physicality, technically, etc...their better player was Woodward.

I think above all it's the dedication and commitment that staff instilled into the guys, and the mental toughness and pride of the English players that made them that great. You see things like England keeping the All-Blacks out when down to 13, not conceding a try for minutes. That's tenacious, tight-screw strategy realized by guys who'd put their lives on the line. "NO WAY are we conceding a try", they were like animals out there. I believe their commitment was their greatest weapon, because physically they didn't have a ton more class like the results would suggest, although had a superb pack and good backs.
And they had such confidence in them having such a strategic mind behind them, such a low risk type game that fine-tuned gradually, they really believed they couldn't lose. They must've believed that, with the concrete results giving fire to their claims.
 
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the best ere for me is defo Gavin Hastings days were Scotland actually won games ;)
 

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