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British and Irish Lions v Argentina

I don't think Russell and M Smith are too like for like. Russell never hit the levels of Sexton, Farrell or Biggar because he loses focus and lacks discipline which is a danger to his own team. However, it's never been a case of needing to improve things he couldn't do like M Smith.

M Smith is one of the best on the ball players in the world and in a perfect world he'd be big enough to play in the midfield or fullback because he's just a run of the mill 10. At international level he has below average passing range, decision making and kicking from hand and the gamebreaking qualities can't make up for it at this level.

Smith would be better off leaning on Sexton this tour to be honest. There's virtually no overlap in their strengths and weaknesses and Johnny has forgotten more about game management than Smith will ever know, if he can pick up a fraction of it he'll improve immensely.
 
You could possibly play Uruguay, Chile, even a USA or Canada team midweek? Not sure on the logistics but suppose it could work?
I think something like that would be the only option. I'd be happy to see it happen but would be a bit sad to not see the midweek matches against clubs/regions.
 
I agree but I guess you'd have no midweek games which would be a bit ****.
I shall repeat myself (with some expansion, because it's what I do)
WT's proposed calendar

Sat1: Canada in Ottawa
Wed2: MLR Allstars in Boston
Sat2: USA in New York

Sat3: Uruguay in Montevideo
Wed4: Chile in Santiago
Sat4: Americas Invitational in Mendoza
Sat5: Argentina in Buenos Aires
Wed6: Brasil in Porto Alegre
Sat6: Argentina in Cordoba
Sat7: Argentina in Buenos Aires

Whilst it's a lot of air miles, there's no major time zone changes.
Only flights that's longer than 2 hours would be New York to Buenos Aires. Presumably you'd set up camp initially somewhere around New York, and then somewhere around Buenos Aires; and travel to matches from those 2 camps.
 
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Still think just making 4 super teams and running a 4 round Robin comp with a final and bronze game is the way to go.

Lions, Africa / Americas, Oceania / Pacific / Asia, Rest of Europe.

Less games, avoids potential of the Lions nations being better than the country they're touring. All rugby fans get to part take in the false friends gimmick. Can bring it to far more locations. Involves T2 like Georgia, Uruguay, Japan and the Pacific Islands.

I don't think this is anymore outlandish than the club world cup either.
 
My thoughts, precisely. He gave away a silly penalty (he kicked the ball from 9 red's hand) but his defense was on point, and so was his line out.
Gonchi's passing game was 10/10, his box kicking was lacking

having to choose between santi carreras and jc mallia is a pain in the ass, yesterday santi was just amazing. I watched all of glocester's games this season just to see him

the first row was consistent and good, which was a surprise given the replacements were playing SR America just a couple of weeks back, it speaks volumes about the quality of the competition, thats' super positive

then I did think we were missing a plan overall, which worked because the lions were messy and rusty, themselves, I assume we'll improve in that during following kicks
 
Is there any more travelling than in South Africa or Australia? How far is Perth from Sydney
Cape Town <=> Pretoria 800 miles
Perth <=> Sydney 2050 miles
Ottawa <=> Buenos Aires 5600 miles (picking Ottawa as A] it's a shorter distance than Vancouver, and B] would make a mini tour for Boston and NYC for the US leg much more reasonable)
 
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Still think just making 4 super teams and running a 4 round Robin comp with a final and bronze game is the way to go.

Lions, Africa / Americas, Oceania / Pacific / Asia, Rest of Europe.

Less games, avoids potential of the Lions nations being better than the country they're touring. All rugby fans get to part take in the false friends gimmick. Can bring it to far more locations. Involves T2 like Georgia, Uruguay, Japan and the Pacific Islands.

I don't think this is anymore outlandish than the club world cup either.

Actually sitting in a waiting room so I'm going to expand on this with my ideal international calendar with the requirement to keep the Lions.

World Cup Year: As usual

WC + 1: 12 team Euros replaces the 6n, no summer rugby tours for NH sides. Rugby Championship replaced by a 12 team Oceania, Africa, Asia, Americas tournament. Autumn Internationals as usual.

WC +2: As usual with the above replacing traditional Lions tour.

WC +3: As usual retaining the three test tours in the SH.

A boy can dream.
 
Yeah but would you have the Canada game in Vancouver or somewhere in South America. Also time zones will possibly be closer
Sorry, see edit - I moved to Ottawa, as makes more sense. Allows fairly close proximity for NYC and presumably Boston, and as you say, friendlier time zones*.
Montreal and Toronto would also work for this - but AFAIK, Canada like to host in Ottawa if it's not Vancouver.


As for bringing Canada, USA and MLR allstars down to South America - I just don't think it's necessary for my proposed calendar.
3 matches in 7 days, all fairly close together (by these standards); then a week off before taking the various South Americans.

*Not just friendly time zones for jet lag, but also for kick-off times. 3.00 KO in NY/Boston/Ottawa = 8.00pm BST; 3.00 Buenos Aires/Montevideo = 7.00pm BST
 
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Sexton has retired my dude, you need to accept that ;)
 
I back that completely and have been saying that England's best 10 is F Smith for nearly two years.

M Smith has achieved nothing as a 10 at international level. He doesn't control territory or possession as well as F Smith, Mackenzie, Prendergast, Pollard or Albornez. He doesn't have the passing range of Russell, N'tamack, Jalibert, F Smith, Prendergast, Albornez or Lolesio. He's not as good a tactical kicker as Prendergast, Mackenzie, Pollard, F Smith or Russell. That's at least 5 players in each area off the top of my head in an era with no real standout 10s yet. You could probably fit SFM into a few of those too but I just haven't seen enough of him and it's ignoring Mo'unga who's out in Japan.

He can he pass a ball well, yes but he doesn't select the best pass at anywhere near the required frequency, same with kicking.

He's Jack Crowley with an elite running game and better mental game. Got on the tour by the skin of his teeth because Prendergast can't defend. There's no hiding this at international level like you can in a domestic league and as good as F Smith is, a 40 cap international with some of the elite skills M Smith has doesn't lose his place to a 22 year old still learning the level. England literally haven't lost since he's been replaced like and despite a year of close calls where fans repeatedly said it was other aspects of England's game, that change was the difference that started to get them over the line.

There's qualities that every top class 10 in the pro era has had that he's lacking in currently.

This is a far fairer assessment than almost anything that has been written about Prendergast by opposition fans on these boards tbh.

He has a summer to pick the brains of a coach who was playing at 38 to a level that currently looks out of reach for him to me, quite a good opportunity for him to avoid a "what might have been" type career. Currently he's a fine international 10, probably above average of the current crop but not due to the skills that 10s have built successful careers on.
 
I back that completely and have been saying that England's best 10 is F Smith for nearly two years.

M Smith has achieved nothing as a 10 at international level. He doesn't control territory or possession as well as F Smith, Mackenzie, Prendergast, Pollard or Albornez. He doesn't have the passing range of Russell, N'tamack, Jalibert, F Smith, Prendergast, Albornez or Lolesio. He's not as good a tactical kicker as Prendergast, Mackenzie, Pollard, F Smith or Russell. That's at least 5 players in each area off the top of my head in an era with no real standout 10s yet. You could probably fit SFM into a few of those too but I just haven't seen enough of him and it's ignoring Mo'unga who's out in Japan.

He can he pass a ball well, yes but he doesn't select the best pass at anywhere near the required frequency, same with kicking.

He's Jack Crowley with an elite running game and better mental game. Got on the tour by the skin of his teeth because Prendergast can't defend. There's no hiding this at international level like you can in a domestic league and as good as F Smith is, a 40 cap international with some of the elite skills M Smith has doesn't lose his place to a 22 year old still learning the level. England literally haven't lost since he's been replaced like and despite a year of close calls where fans repeatedly said it was other aspects of England's game, that change was the difference that started to get them over the line.

There's qualities that every top class 10 in the pro era has had that he's lacking in currently.

This is a far fairer assessment than almost anything that has been written about Prendergast by opposition fans on these boards tbh.

He has a summer to pick the brains of a coach who was playing at 38 to a level that currently looks out of reach for him to me, quite a good opportunity for him to avoid a "what might have been" type career. Currently he's a fine international 10, probably above average of the current crop but not due to the skills that 10s have built successful careers on.

Im on board with this opinion, IMHO Smith is about as usefull as Sam Costelow at international level.

I feel for him at 15, but Argentina saw that back 3 and exploited it, as any coach in rugby would do. It was a rough day for Smith yesterday, but its not the first time he's looked like an u20s players stepping up to help out the 1st team. He's lost at FB, he's not quick enough, his positioning is poor, and its just not worth all that to utilise him as a 2nd playmaker because neither centre can distribute.

F Smith is easily England's best 10, he's not the complete package yet, but he has the potential, we know his namesake doesn't.

It was a decent hit out yesterday, some good stuff from Lions, albeit way too optimistic for the first game together, it looked exactly what it was, bunch of strangers vs a team.

Itojes taking a lot of flack but I don't think that's fair, Earl was very poor though. Tomos didnt half make a difference coming on, but his style lends itself to off the bench impact to be fair to Mitchell, I don't think he did too much wrong.

Not convinced by the centre partnership, or either wing TBH, but in that back 3 a world class player like VDM could struggle with the chaos that was caused.

Farrell will have learnt a lot, some of the stats were good, and the things that were big issues are easily fixable with time together.

Pollock makes it hard to like him lol, soft missed tackle for the try, and being rag dolled and turned over by a wing to lose the game is the kind of action noone wants to see on replay. He looked a little behind the pace of int rugby, but hell of a ceiling that boy has.

We all have to agree though, M Smith at 15 experiment has been a failure.
 

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