• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Crusaders vs. Reds Qualifier 20/07/2013

Gather App
There is no way Cooper is "more brilliant" than Spencer was. Carlos was miles better than Cooper, he did the same trickery but didn't stuff up as often. And he invented everything that Cooper does anyway. Add to that Spencer was a top performer at international level. He had the point scoring record for tri nations up until a couple of seasons ago, and it only got broken because they started playing two more tests.
 
donmcdazzle said:
There is no way Cooper is "more brilliant" than Spencer was. Carlos was miles better than Cooper, he did the same trickery but didn't stuff up as often. And he invented everything that Cooper does anyway. Add to that Spencer was a top performer at international level. He had the point scoring record for tri nations up until a couple of seasons ago, and it only got broken because they started playing two more tests.
Click to expand...

Yeah but Cooper is 25 years old and has already won a Tri Nations and Super Rugby once. He has many years of career, he can beat Spencer. Remember that Carlos never played a RWC in high level, both RWC 99 and RWC 2003 were failures for him. If Cooper wins a RWC playing at a high level, he could beat Spencer. He would get 5 or 6 years more than career at the highest level, if he has no serious injuries at the time.

Regards
 
if there is an Anzac team in 2015 it would be Genia Carter just because i think if it was two from one country the other country would be unhappy also it would be a great game for carter to retire on.
 
donmcdazzle said:
There is no way Cooper is "more brilliant" than Spencer was. Carlos was miles better than Cooper, he did the same trickery but didn't stuff up as often. And he invented everything that Cooper does anyway. Add to that Spencer was a top performer at international level. He had the point scoring record for tri nations up until a couple of seasons ago, and it only got broken because they started playing two more tests.
Click to expand...

These 2003 highlights illistrate your point -



He was doing stupidly amazing, tricky and risky stuff before anyone else. Cooper is really good but there's a hole crap taken out of Spencer's book - and I agree that it comes off less consistently. Also - Spencer could tackle..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dan Carter vs Quade Cooper
Quade Cooper vs Dan Carter

130719053221254230.jpg


OMG! I can't wait...
 
Total dreamers saying Cooper is better than Spencer!! The Crusaders are going to blow the reds off the park. Mark my words. Look at the lineups. Other than Genia, Cooper and Horwell.... who have all played better rugby in 2011 (gifted the title in 2011) than they have at any stage in the last two or three years that team is a bunch of nobodys. Genia is out of form and anybody that says he is still the current best 9 in the world is on drugs I would take Ellis anyday over him ATM thats how not great he is.

They are also missing the coach that guided them to this spot on the table. I give them no chance without Mckenzie there.
 
Last edited:
austingtir said:
Total dreamers saying Cooper is better than Spencer!! The Crusaders are going to blow the reds off the park. Mark my words. Look at the lineups. Other than Genia, Cooper and Horwell.... who have all played better rugby in 2011 (gifted the title in 2011) than they have at any stage in the last two or three years that team is a bunch of nobodys. Genia is out of form and anybody that says he is still the current best 9 in the world is on drugs I would take Ellis anyday over him ATM thats how not great he is.

They are also missing the coach that guided them to this spot on the table. I give them no chance without Mckenzie there.
Click to expand...

Crusaders have better players in all positions and they have the advantage of playing at home but never give Reds for dead, they could spring a surprise. I remember at the Final 2011, Crusaders were also favorites and Reds won.


I disagree with you about Genia, I think he's still one of the best at his position, perhaps the best. Who for you is better? South Africa has no defined a scrum-half: Hougaard, Ruan Pienaar, all are criticized by people. Aaron Smith failed with Highlanders this year and Weepu always criticized for his fitness, in NZ many people think it's time for TJ Perenara. So for you the best scrum-half is an European? Who? Mike Phillips, Ben Youngs? For me Genia is still the best, he showed that in the Test against Lions.

Regards
 
Last edited:
Conrad Smith said:
Crusaders have better players in all positions and they have the advantage of playing at home but never give Reds for dead, they could spring a surprise. I remember at the Final 2011, Crusaders were also favorites and Reds won.


I disagree with you about Genia, I think he's still one of the best at his position, perhaps the best. Who for you is better? South Africa has no defined a scrum-half: Hougaard, Ruan Pienaar, all are criticized by people. Aaron Smith failed with Highlanders this year and Weepu always criticized for his fitness, in NZ many people think it's time for TJ Perenara. So for you the best scrum-half is an European? Who? Mike Phillips, Ben Youngs? For me Genia is still the best, he showed that in the Test against Lions.

Regards
Click to expand...


I see it the opposite to you the lions test proved to me he isnt as great as people are making him out to be. Is he the best around atm... probably is.... the state of halfbacks in the world game atm is pretty poor imo. The fact that Genia is standing out among them proves to me that he is not great... better than the rest probably true. I could count the memorable plays he's made on one hand and none of them were particularly great. The try in the above video was just rubbish defence by a crusaders side (blackadder coached i might add) that was out on their feet after probably the hardest campaign in the history of super rugby.

Honestly if Joost, Marshall, Kelleher, Gregan were all playing now in their prime i honestly think they would overshadow all of the current halfs we have around. Joost and Gregan in particular.

To me even Weepu when he puts the effort in is a better player than Genia... its just Weepu doesnt do that very often.

I am one of the guys that think TJ needs to be given a shot. To me he has the most potential of any halfback in the world he just needs to be developed properly as he clearly has faults.

Reds are no chance mate totally different crusaders side from 2011 whereas the reds are basically the same but playing worse. I think people are underrating the crusaders midfield aswell. You dont get a start in the crusaders 12 and 13 if your a muppet.
 
austingtir said:
I see it the opposite to you the lions test proved to me he isnt as great as people are making him out to be. Is he the best around atm... probably is.... the state of halfbacks in the world game atm is pretty poor imo. The fact that Genia is standing out among them proves to me that he is not great... better than the rest probably true. I could count the memorable plays he's made on one hand and none of them were particularly great. The try in the above video was just rubbish defence by a crusaders side (blackadder coached i might add) that was out on their feet after probably the hardest campaign in the history of super rugby.

Honestly if Joost, Marshall, Kelleher, Gregan were all playing now in their prime i honestly think they would overshadow all of the current halfs we have around. Joost and Gregan in particular.

To me even Weepu when he puts the effort in is a better player than Genia... its just Weepu doesnt do that very often.

I am one of the guys that think TJ needs to be given a shot. To me he has the most potential of any halfback in the world he just needs to be developed properly as he clearly has faults.

Reds are no chance mate totally different crusaders side from 2011 whereas the reds are basically the same but playing worse. I think people are underrating the crusaders midfield aswell. You dont get a start in the crusaders 12 and 13 if your a muppet.
Click to expand...

I agree about the old halfbacks, they are better than the current, that is indisputable. Joost, Marshall, Kelleher and Gregan were fantastic!

About Piri Weepu, I think we've seen the best of him, that's all, every time he's older and can't exceed that level. I also think it's time for TJ, he needs more opportunities.

Regards
 
austingtir said:
Total dreamers saying Cooper is better than Spencer!! The Crusaders are going to blow the reds off the park. Mark my words. Look at the lineups. Other than Genia, Cooper and Horwell.... who have all played better rugby in 2011 (gifted the title in 2011) than they have at any stage in the last two or three years that team is a bunch of nobodys. Genia is out of form and anybody that says he is still the current best 9 in the world is on drugs I would take Ellis anyday over him ATM thats how not great he is.

They are also missing the coach that guided them to this spot on the table. I give them no chance without Mckenzie there.
Click to expand...

Are you high? Mckenzie wasn't their coach this season, Will Genia is three classes above Andy Ellis.

I'd also say

Todd < Gill
Marshall < Shipperly
Guildford < Anyone
G.Whitelock < Quirk

In fact I'd go as far to say this is one of the weakest Crusaders teams on paper. I predict they should topple the Reds as they are down some pretty important players, but I'd be suprised if this wasn't close.
 
TRF_nickdnz said:
Are you high? Mckenzie wasn't their coach this season, Will Genia is three classes above Andy Ellis.

I'd also say

Todd < Gill
Marshall < Shipperly
Guildford < Anyone
G.Whitelock < Quirk
Click to expand...

Agree that saying Ellis is better then Genia but on the others not so sure. Gil better than Todd I agree, but based on this season Marshal is better then Shipperly and Gulford better than CFS not sure on Quirk V Whitelock. Definitely going to be closer then austinger is suggesting.
 
lynam1104 said:
Agree that saying Ellis is better then Genia but on the others not so sure. Gil better than Todd I agree, but based on this season Marshal is better then Shipperly and Gulford better than CFS not sure on Quirk V Whitelock. Definitely going to be closer then austinger is suggesting.
Click to expand...

Gill is without doubt a better pilferer of the ball. In any other stat or situation i would take Matt Todd. The crusaders style does not need a player like Gill as most players in that team can pilfer ball at times. Like the Chiefs last week the Reds will get dominated through field position and a far superior forward pack. Its like when Australia thought they had a chance at 2011 world cup with David Pocock playing out of his skin. It wont matter if the Crusaders think about their tactics and take Gill out of the equation which im sure they will.

And as for the others pfff...

TRF_nickdnz said:
Are you high? Mckenzie wasn't their coach this season, Will Genia is three classes above Andy Ellis.

I'd also say

Todd < Gill
Marshall < Shipperly
Guildford < Anyone
G.Whitelock < Quirk

In fact I'd go as far to say this is one of the weakest Crusaders teams on paper. I predict they should topple the Reds as they are down some pretty important players, but I'd be suprised if this wasn't close.
Click to expand...


Go onto the REDS website. Who do we find as Director of Coaching?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)
First rugby Club World Championship confirmed for 2028
Replies
11
Views
2K
WCRugger
W
P
Talks about the new playoff format of SuperRugbyPacific
Replies
3
Views
2K
Derpus
Derpus
saulan
South Africa vs Italy - 12/07/2025
Replies
6
Views
1K
Which Tyler
Which Tyler
D
20 munute red cards to be used this year
Replies
2
Views
493
AlRums
AlRums
dullonien
Wales under Tandy
2 3
Replies
43
Views
3K
Welsh Exile
W

Latest posts

Sponsored
UnlistMe
Back
Top