Dylan Hartley charged over Headbutt

[goodNumber10]

You having a laugh?

not in the slightest, i honestly think it's just an accident. The vine doing the rounds stops short,

He gets up form the tackle and the guy is holding his leg, he goes to run and his stride is cut short because of that, he drives his foot down to maintain balance and is let go... he runs to the ruck then walks backwards then sees the guy on the ground bends down and puts his hand on him and lets play go on and stays with the guy.

 

[McTallshort]

The one on Twitter shows a very deliberate stamp how anyone can call that an accident is beyond me

 

[goodNumber10]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.... but if you've ever had your leg pulled whe running or jumping it's pretty easy to understand, his left leg is in the air, his right is held back by the guy - his left leg can literaly go no where but down, he falls over as his leg is pulled from under him.

It's unfortunate, but i think his actions afterwards speak volumes of his intent...

here's the full video:
[video]https://youtu.be/GNb-twSS5gg[/video]

Watch him from the minute he makes the stamp onwards.

 

[smartcooky]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32931690

Hartley to be dropped.

His appalling disciplinary record has cost him again. It seems the fact that he has a relatively clean record for England hasn't convinced Lancaster to take the risk.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/32930972

[TEXTAREA]Northampton chairman Tony Hewitt said the hooker had become a "marked man"."It's very difficult for Dylan now, he's a marked man and everybody picks on him with incidents he is involved with," Hewitt told BBC Radio Northampton.[/TEXTAREA]

And whose fault is that Tim? Hartley only has himself to blame for what has happened to him now. He lacks discipline, and fails to learn from his punishments. He is engineer of his own misfortune; his lack of self-control has cost him a Premiership final (when he was red carded), a Lions tour and now a place in a Rugby World Cup. If he hasn't learned by now, I don't think he ever will.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.... but if you've ever had your leg pulled whe running or jumping it's pretty easy to understand, his left leg is in the air, his right is held back by the guy - his left leg can literaly go no where but down, he falls over as his leg is pulled from under him.

It's unfortunate, but i think his actions afterwards speak volumes of his intent...

here's the full video:
[video]https://youtu.be/GNb-twSS5gg[/video]

Watch him from the minute he makes the stamp onwards.

Contrition immediately after the event does not prove innocence over the initial act. It was a clear stamp.

 

[SelimNiai]

Contrition immediately after the event does not prove innocence over the initial act. It was a clear stamp.

Agreed, I think its an obvious stamp, Huget "helps" to try to make it seem accidental

 

[Every Time Ref]

It looks pretty deliberate to me. GN10, I can see your argument about losing balance, but no one stamps down that hard just to keep their footing. I don't think it's premeditated, hence why as soon as he's done it he realises what he's done and turns to help him, but there's no doubt in my mind it's deliberate.

 

[goodNumber10]

Contrition immediately after the event does not prove innocence over the initial act. It was a clear stamp.

Not always no, and I haven't claimed abutting of the site.

I just think on this occasion it adds weight to the fact it's a clear accident.

 

[goodNumber10]

It looks pretty deliberate to me. GN10, I can see your argument about losing balance, but no one stamps down that hard just to keep their footing. I don't think it's premeditated, hence why as soon as he's done it he realises what he's done and turns to help him, but there's no doubt in my mind it's deliberate.

Stand in the middle of the floor with a mate, jump in the air and get your mate to pull your legs out from under you.

See how hard you come down, garuntee it won't be softly.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Stand in the middle of the floor with a mate, jump in the air and get your mate to pull your legs out from under you.

See how hard you come, garuntee it won't be softly.

This is no time for trying out your weird sex games, GN10...

 

[goodNumber10]

This is no time for trying out your weird sex games, GN10...

Lol!

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Not always no, and I haven't claimed abutting of the site.

I just think on this occasion it adds weight to the fact it's a clear accident.

Adds what weight that it was a clear accident??? Only in your eyes. To everyone else here who has viewed that clip it's a clear stamp. If he's not banned for that then it would be a travesty in line with James Horwill's stamp on AWJ.

Anyway, let's stay on topic - this thread isn't the Huget should be let off thread. If you want to champion Huget's case then start another thread.


I see one has been started by Rageranger.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Just to concur with what has been said above. If we could move the stamp talk over to the relevant thread, be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[goodNumber10]

Adds what weight that it was a clear accident??? Only in your eyes. To everyone else here who has viewed that clip it's a clear stamp. If he's not banned for that then it would be a travesty in line with James Horwill's stamp on AWJ.

Anyway, let's stay on topic - this thread isn't the Huget should be let off thread. If you want to champion Huget's case then start another thread.


I see one has been started by Rageranger.

Is not just me though is it? Others on the other thread have agreed.

Happy to leave it here, but then I didnt bring it up.

 

[ZeroTwo]

I agree with your view on Huget goodNumber10 but saying that Hartley's past is irrelevant is trickier.

I think he's proven in the past that he has very little regard for the opposition safety. Yes you want to smash your opposite number etc but going out just to hurt people slyly is completely different (the gouging incident is the big one, and lets remember that was the one he was caught for. Entirely possible he tried to do other dirty things). With this continued poor disciplinary record I think you have to be harsher on him. If I was an opposite hooker and I knew that he was possibly going to rashly hurt me and injure me (holding back my career) I wouldn't want to play him.

I don't think this is citable, but I think rugby has a duty to teach him is blatant disregard is not acceptable. I do understand that the worst of his offences were a while ago though and maybe he has changed. I'm not saying he definitely should be cited, but there is an argument that if they have to protect players from him, he shouldn't be playing.

- - - Updated - - -

It looks pretty deliberate to me. GN10, I can see your argument about losing balance, but no one stamps down that hard just to keep their footing. I don't think it's premeditated, hence why as soon as he's done it he realises what he's done and turns to help him, but there's no doubt in my mind it's deliberate.

Perhaps. Although perhaps if your falling you throw your leg down pretty hard to try and push yourself back upright. It's not just a steadying leg, but one trying to stop him falling over and stand back. I think (despite really not liking him) that it was probably accidental and I know when I nearly fall over (which is horrendously often) I do the same thing to right myself.

 

[goodNumber10]

I agree with your view on Huget goodNumber10 but saying that Hartley's past is irrelevant is trickier.

I think he's proven in the past that he has very little regard for the opposition safety. Yes you want to smash your opposite number etc but going out just to hurt people slyly is completely different (the gouging incident is the big one, and lets remember that was the one he was caught for. Entirely possible he tried to do other dirty things). With this continued poor disciplinary record I think you have to be harsher on him. If I was an opposite hooker and I knew that he was possibly going to rashly hurt me and injure me (holding back my career) I wouldn't want to play him.

I don't think this is citable, but I think rugby has a duty to teach him is blatant disregard is not acceptable. I do understand that the worst of his offences were a while ago though and maybe he has changed. I'm not saying he definitely should be cited, but there is an argument that if they have to protect players from him, he shouldn't be playing.

I got no problem with the length of the sentence, if they think it's a headbutt.

But you can't say it's a headbutt because it's Hartley same way I think people are letting their dislike of YH because he once dived cloud their judgement on this.

 

[ZeroTwo]

I got no problem with the length of the sentence, if they think it's a headbutt.

But you can't say it's a headbutt because it's Hartley same way I think people are letting their dislike of YH because he once dived cloud their judgement on this.

I get what you're saying but Hartley is a liability to others on the pitch. Until that's seen to have stopped they have to discipline him to protect other players! It's not just about punishment but making sure he doesn't do it again.

I think it was a heatbutt or at least a "collision of heads" which normally wouldn't be deemed to be anything more than posturing. It does NOTHING to persuade me he isn't liability to not only his team but the opposition.

Having said this, I don't think it was the reason they banned him. I suspect it was just because they have to be seen to be doing something.

 

[Maverick1987]

I don't think what Hartley did was as bad as McGrath, Madigan or Huget yet they have all been let off ?

Just a question does your disciplinary record count when deciding if an action requires citing ?

 

[smartcooky]

Just a question does your disciplinary record count when deciding if an action requires citing ?

No. The Citing Officer must make his decision based purely on the circumstances of the incident he is considering for citing.

Even when the cited player gets to the Judicial Hearing, the JO must not look at his disciplinary record if and after he has decided that he is guilty, and has settled on the entry level for the offence; Low End, Mid Range, Top End. (see Regulation 17 Appendix 1 for a list of ranges and offences)

It is only when they are considering the actual length of suspension that the player's record can be examined as it contents will determine aggravating or mitigating factors.