Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by mdaclarke, Aug 26, 2019.
Living up to his nickname!
Old mate P Divvy showing his true colours... Appealing to identity politics over the right to innocence before proven guilty
PDV just trying to be relevant... Don't know why reporters keep going to him for a comment...
He hasn't been relevant since before he coached the boks.
Nobody wants to hire him, the last few jobs he had he was fired from, journos just trying to stir the pot.
Pieter de Villiers is a NBA, plain and simple
He is a sour, unskilled and unschooled soul.
To go that low against your own country and National team, actually sad
P.S. NBA = Natural Born A**hole
What does this mean? Will he have to leave the World Cup?
I wonder what evidence they have to make that decision when it seems like the police have no evidence against him...
Who knows. It will be whatever they have against him in the shape of testimony against the people Eben will use for his defence and their testimony.
Then it will be weighed up against one another, and the court will make a ruling.
The other question that will be raised is what words did Eben use specifically (if any). And whether or not those words are deemed derogatory or not within context.
As for him appearing in court, that will depend on Eben and his legal team. The SAHRC will now lodge their complaint at the equality court on Friday. Then Eben has 5 days (i think) to file a NTD (notice of intention to defend). And then the process will formally start.
This isn’t to say this will happen immediately, and the possibility is still there that his hearing will only take place after the end of the world cup.
Doesn't that violate the presumption of innocence?
Don't you need a bit more evidence than just one of the party's testimony to elevate this?
Otherwise you can just ruin people's lives by accusing them.
One saving grace is that although Etzebeth is a great player, I actually don't think the Boks would miss him that much with De Jager, Snyman and Mostert in their squad.
One thing the Boks are not short of are Locks. I think the Boks will miss Kriel more than Etzebeth (if he has to go home).
I assume Elstadt would be called up if Etlzebeth did have to go home.
Like you said really, if the Boks could lose a player from one position... lock would be it. A wealth of world-class players there!
The SAHRC have 2 people’s testimony against Eben. But Eben indicated he has 12 testimonies.
Now this seems to me a bit like a witch hunt. Especially since the Police and NPA doesn’t seem like they’ll be prosecuting Eben for assault.
But the SAHRC has a tendency to drag things out. Remember the whole Ashwin Willemse incident? There’s still no word on that issue and the Labour Court.
I honestly believe that if someone challenged the SAHRC they'd be found to be unconstitutional in their "judgements". They seem to be very reactive to certain situations while other matters take years and/or fizzle out. It's like their urgency is dictated by the faux outrage on social media.
I have a bad feeling about this guys.
If he is guilty sure, but i doubt.
I think this is a witch hunt which is trying to force him out of the world cup at the very least to come and defend himself. If he proves his innocense than the accusers won because then they sabotaged the Boks plans for the world cup and destroyed a part of the career of one of our greatest talents. I just think it's about getting him out of the world cup and with the far left-leaning world we find ourselves in than even the slightest accusations will mean you are guilty in the eyes of the public.
If he gets called back to SA and he is found to be innocent than im not sure if I can back the Boks anymore because then they gave in to questionable social media demands by the public and took away what is a career highlight to most players.
Makes me think that the witch hunt idea is not that far fetched.
SA Rugby is being proactive in doing the internal investigation. They are basically doing everything they can to keep him as long as possible out of the courts and in Japan.
What bothers me though is that there is no warrant out for arrest, so it doesn't seem like Etzebeth's problem is the assault charge, but more so the hate speech charge. Now depending on the words he used, the possibility is there that he can still be criminally charged for hate speech, and he could face jailtime like penny sparrow did. But I highly doubt that Eben will get that harsh a punishment should he be guilty of hate speech. And I say this because:
He didn't use the "K"-word.
He didn't use the word(s) 48 time like Penny Sparrow did.
The words he used in question, seems to be words that some don't find offensive or qualifiable as hatespeech.
There seems to be an overwhelming support by people present at the incident, that Eben didn't say anything derogatory at all.
The topic of provocation might again be brought up as a defence for Eben, and then the question of what was said or done after the provocation took place, is a form of mitigating circumstances.
The damage to his vehicle is also something that needs to be taken into consideration.
But the SAHRC's case to me, seems a bit light. They only have testimony of 2 people, the complainants themselves. No other witnesses... While Eben has 12 witnesses. 12!!!!
I hope they will let him finish the world cup and then deal with this later.
Do you think this is the work of Cape Crusaders (or Cape All Blacks, don't remember what they are called)?
As I said before I don't actually think losing Etzebeth would be that harmful for the Boks (less harmful than losing Kriel) as the Boks have an abundance of World Class Locks. I am not even sure if on current form Etzebeth should be in the starting XV
Could be the work of the Cape Crusaders. But this would mean that something even more sinister is going on. And that this was some sort of premeditated move to get Eben out of the World Cup, based on the timing of the incident. And then it could open a whole can of worms like match fixing and betting violations and stuff like that. So I don't want to even go there at this moment or even speculate about those kind of issues.
I suggest we play this by ear, and we look at how this develops. Sure Eben has a temper, and it is quite possible that he perhaps in a state of rage/anger/irritation due to the provocation, said something that he shouldn't have, for the police and the NPA not to prosecute tells me that the incident isn't as severe as it is being made out. And just like in Ashwin Willemse's case, they run to the SAHRC to see if they can milk this as best they can.
SARU have confirmed that while they are following protocol and co-operating with SAHRC, they are not preparing to bring Eben back home.
They haven't been instructed to send him home. And the SARU president confirmed again this morning, that Eben wasn't formally charged yet.
It also seems like SARU is doing a good job of having these issues not affecting the players. Siya Kolisi said this morning at a press briefing, they don't know what is going on regarding Eben's case, and they know he's playing tomorrow.
He should be Ok Provided he isn't charged with a criminal offence and the non-white players back him.
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