Eddie's Gone!

[soto14]

Wow, I just found out about this news here, I'm in Spain now. I'm sure the guys in my office are celebrating! I feel a little like MunsterMan, though. But he had to go, everyone wanted him to

 

[Dream]

This is what I don't get. I knew a lot of my friends slammed SCW after the RWC2003 seemed to be the last good thing he did. Yes he made a mess of the Lions but what annoyed me was how you can berate the record of a man who turned England into a "World Class" side not only capable of beating the best sides in the world but in many cases dominating them. You can talk of a great generation of players but he was the man that galvanised them. EOS did a similar job with Ireland. Yes recently they dropped off the standard of recent years but look at the record of Ireland beforehand. If you look at the below figure Ireland have performed well under his stewardship

6 Nations All Time Table (2000 - 2008)
Pld W D L PF PA PD Pts Champs GS TC WS
France 45 33 0 12 1339 827 512 66 4 2 n/a 0
Ireland 45 31 0 14 1267 962 305 62 0 0 3 0
England 45 30 0 15 1462 786 676 60 3 1 2 0
Wales 45 20 2 23 1066 1212 -146 42 2 2 2 1
Scotland 45 13 1 31 803 1296 -493 27 0 0 0 2
Italy 45 6 1 38 768 1620 -852 13 0 0 6

 

[An Tarbh]

This is what I don't get. I knew a lot of my friends slammed SCW after the RWC2003 seemed to be the last good thing he did. Yes he made a mess of the Lions but what annoyed me was how you can berate the record of a man who turned England into a "World Class" side not only capable of beating the best sides in the world but in many cases dominating them. You can talk of a great generation of players but he was the man that galvanised them. EOS did a similar job with Ireland. Yes recently they dropped off the standard of recent years but look at the record of Ireland beforehand. If you look at the below figure Ireland have performed well under his stewardship

6 Nations All Time Table (2000 - 2008)
Pld W D L PF PA PD Pts Champs GS TC WS
France 45 33 0 12 1339 827 512 66 4 2 n/a 0
Ireland 45 31 0 14 1267 962 305 62 0 0 3 0
England 45 30 0 15 1462 786 676 60 3 1 2 0
Wales 45 20 2 23 1066 1212 -146 42 2 2 2 1
Scotland 45 13 1 31 803 1296 -493 27 0 0 0 2
Italy 45 6 1 38 768 1620 -852 13 0 0 6
[/b]

I'm not saying we haven't performed well, and only 11 loses from 35 games isn't a bad return, but from that amount of wins, no championships and no grand slam is a poor reflection on the coach. Perrennial bridesmaids springs to mind.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

This is what I don't get. I knew a lot of my friends slammed SCW after the RWC2003 seemed to be the last good thing he did. Yes he made a mess of the Lions but what annoyed me was how you can berate the record of a man who turned England into a "World Class" side not only capable of beating the best sides in the world but in many cases dominating them. You can talk of a great generation of players but he was the man that galvanised them. EOS did a similar job with Ireland. Yes recently they dropped off the standard of recent years but look at the record of Ireland beforehand. If you look at the below figure Ireland have performed well under his stewardship

6 Nations All Time Table (2000 - 2008)
Pld W D L PF PA PD Pts Champs GS TC WS
France 45 33 0 12 1339 827 512 66 4 2 n/a 0
Ireland 45 31 0 14 1267 962 305 62 0 0 3 0
England 45 30 0 15 1462 786 676 60 3 1 2 0
Wales 45 20 2 23 1066 1212 -146 42 2 2 2 1
Scotland 45 13 1 31 803 1296 -493 27 0 0 0 2
Italy 45 6 1 38 768 1620 -852 13 0 0 6
[/b]

There are other, perhaps more relevant ways of putting that table.

6 Nations ***les (2000-2008)
France - 4
England - 3
Wales - 2
Ireland - 0
Scotland - 0
Italy - 0

Grand Slams (2000-2008)
Wales - 2
France - 2
England - 1
Ireland - 0
Scotland - 0
Italy - 0

Ireland under O'Sullivan were consistent in the 6 Nations yet they blew a golden opportunity to take home both the grand slam and ***le in 2007. He failed in the 2003 World Cup (we beat France well only a few months previous to our diabolical exit), 2007 World Cup and 2008 6 Nations. He didn't develop talent to any degree meaning the new coach is faced with the task of completely overhauling the international squad. He had zero communication with the provincial coaches. He alienated his support staff. While the likes of Heaslip, Kearney and Fitzgerald eventually got the shot they deserved, it was only on the back of a dismal showing against Italy where he picked out of form favourites.

O'Sullivan wasn't a progressive coach. While his record looks relatively impressive on the face of it, he failed to get the most out of an outstanding group of players. For that, I'm thankful he's gone.

 

[shazbooger]

I say again ............... lies, damned lies, and statistics.

The grand slam was ours last year if it wasnt for some **** poor decision making on the pitch at the time. Had we take the shot at goal when given the chance, France wouldnt have been able to pounce on that friendly bounce and score the final try. Even so, we only missed out on the championship due to a dubious try awarded to the French by the TMO.

Stats can be displayed to say what you want them to display. They NEVER tell the whole story.

f*** sake lads, every single one of you have enjoyed the last few years. Give the man a bit of credit for it.

Heres another thing to ponder. Maybe that outstanding bunch of players wasnt/isnt half as good as we thought they were. How much of the blame should they take?

 

[An Tarbh]

I say again ............... lies, damned lies, and statistics.

The grand slam was ours last year if it wasnt for some **** poor decision making on the pitch at the time. Had we take the shot at goal when given the chance, France wouldnt have been able to pounce on that friendly bounce and score the final try. Even so, we only missed out on the championship due to a dubious try awarded to the French by the TMO.

Stats can be displayed to say what you want them to display. They NEVER tell the whole story.

f*** sake lads, every single one of you have enjoyed the last few years. Give the man a bit of credit for it.

Heres another thing to ponder. Maybe that outstanding bunch of players wasnt/isnt half as good as we thought they were. How much of the blame should they take?
[/b]

Well I'll point at one obvious flaw that can't be argued with and that's his refusal to pick an out and out openside, Wales are proof of how important a proper openside is, yet Eddie didn't consistently buy into that.

 

[shtove]

I say again ............... lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Heres another thing to ponder. Maybe that outstanding bunch of players wasnt/isnt half as good as we thought they were. How much of the blame should they take? [/b]

I'm with Logo - a lot of pleasure on the way, with some WTF losses.

It looks like the players available now are better than those Eddie started off with. Scrum is better, backs can be just as lethal, lineout a lot less reliable, and you can't improve on the BODarsey midfield defence. Decision makers are better. Still a good team. But no real captain - although I'd go for ROG.

Whatever about the who or when of a new coach, the areas needing improvement are quick ball off the lineout, and a scavenger in the backrow.

Still not far off - but not far is too far.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

f*** sake lads, every single one of you have enjoyed the last few years. Give the man a bit of credit for it.

Heres another thing to ponder. Maybe that outstanding bunch of players wasnt/isnt half as good as we thought they were. How much of the blame should they take? [/b]

Credit where credit is due, O'Sullivan did some very good things. He was extremely brave in his decision to pair D'arcy and O'Driscoll in the centre and it paid off in spades. Equally his decision to move Denis Leamy from Munster blindside to Ireland #8 worked successfully until the World Cup. He was proven correct in his decision to give Paul O'Connell a chance before many (myself included) felt he was ready. Giving Brian O'Driscoll the captaincy at just 23 years old was also a very good decision. Plucking Mike Ford from relative obscurity and making him defense coach was an inspired move. Wins against Australia in 2002, England in 2004 and 2007 and South Africa in 2004 and 2006 are standout moments in his coaching career and won't be easily forgotten.

However none of that changes the fact that he blunted Ireland's backline. He was crazy in taking four blindsides (Ferris, Quinlan, Easterbunny, Best) to the World Cup and ever moreso for only taking one unfit 7 (Wallace) and 8 (Leamy). His poor selection gave him no options once things began to unravel. We left games behind (Wales in 2008, France in 2008, South Africa away in 2004, New Zealand in 2002 and 2006) which we should and would have won with a better strategy, although I agree that player error played a role in at least a couple of those games.

I don't agree that the players weren't as good as hyped. We see in the Heineken Cup how talented they are in comparision with their counterparts from other nations year in, year out. We've stacked up extremely favourably for the last 6 years and now wwe have an outstanding new generation (Heaslip, Caldwell, Ryan, Healy, Pollack, Ferris, Earls, Fitzgerald, Kearney) breaking through/already having broken through to compliment them.

The man deserves some credit for what he achieved. I'd equate him to somebody like Martin Jol in that on the surface his record was impressive. What we now need is a Juande Ramos to take us to the next level.