England 2022/23

[BPM]

Walker's a really odd one to me. It seems like Borthwick simultaneously has a lot of faith in him and absolutely no faith in him at the same time. Puts him on the bench for all 5 Six Nations games without giving a sniff to Dunn, or bringing someone else into camp, but then gives him hardly any minutes.

Such a shame McGuigan was injured. Even without a cap, I'd prefer him to Walker, Dunn, Dolly, Blamire etc.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

SH: I could see Quirke leapfrogging Mitchell

I don't think so, not off the back of this season
He'd need to do exceptionally well in training and warmups (and get a callup in general)
Realistically he only made the bench for Sale this season because Cliff was also injured most of the season

Warr, on the other hand? Very much in the Wigglesworth mold

Ewels I don't like it, but I could definitely see it happening if Chessum isn't fit.

Got his initial England callup/run of caps when Borthwick was in charge of the forwards - stranger things have happened (though I reckon he'd favour the Tigers two over him)

 

[BPM]

For me the most likely uncapped bolters are McGuigan, Murley and Pearson. I'm definitely not resistant to the idea of Theo Dan, but he's got to make the training squad first.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

The only ones I'd question are Chessum (injury as already discussed) and Daly. I don't recall him being injured and he wasn't involved in the 6N which is really our only indication on Borthwick's preferences so far.

Daly was in Borthwick's OG Six Nations squad before getting injured. Was out from end of Jan to start of May. Purely speculation but I think Borthwick intended to play him as a ball-playing winger, and Malins was the like-for-like replacement once he got injured.

 

[BPM]

Off the back of this season?
He'd need to do exceptionally well in training and warmups (and get a callup in general)
Realistically he only made the bench for Sale this season because Cliff was also injured most of the season


Got his initial England callup/run of caps when Borthwick was in charge of the forwards - stranger things have happened (though I reckon he'd favour the Tigers two over him)

No. Off the back of training and warm-ups. I think he's a better player than Mitchell and in a head-to-head with a clean slate, I think he has a decent chance of sneaking a spot.

I'm totally up for Warr getting called up, but I don't recall there being any interest so far?

Re. Ewels, let us pray you are correct.

 

[BPM]

Daly was in Borthwick's OG Six Nations squad before getting injured. Was out from end of Jan to start of May. Purely speculation but I think Borthwick intended to play him as a ball-playing winger, and Malins was the like-for-like replacement once he got injured.

Fair enough. I thought he was just left out.

 

[Jimbo]

Fair enough. I thought he was just left out.

Yeah Daly was out, pre-injury he was playing some lovely stuff and has in patches on his return, I rate him and Malins highly but think ED is a little more talented and has the long range boot if your looking for a difference.

 

[BPM]

I agree. I'd forgotten that Daly was in the original squad. I just thought Borthwick had chosen Malins.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

FWIW I think right now Borthwick goes:
LP (3): Genge, Vunipola, Rodd
HK (3): George, McGuigan, Walker
TP (3): Sinckler, Cole, Stuart
LK (3): Itoje, Chessum, Ribbans
LK/FL (1): Lawes
FL (3): Curry, Ludlam, Willis
N8 (2): Mercer, Dombrandt
SH (3): Van Poortvliet, Mitchell, Youngs
FH (3): Farrell, Ford, Smith
IC (2): Tuilagi, Kelly
OC (2): Slade, Lawrence
WG (3): Watson, Malins, Arundell
FB (1): Steward
UB (1): Daly

I'd be really surprised if it deviates much from that.

I think there are still a good number of places up for grabs.

No point taking Cole as third choice if Stuart's fit. Invest in Heyes for the future. Total wild card might be Davison as he can cover both sides freeing up a space elsewhere. I'd take either Marler, if available, or VRR over Mako now.

Hooker, who knows, LCD might even be in the mix.

In the back row Ludlam doesn't start if everyone else is fit. A fit Underhill surely travels and possible Earl might get the impact sub / utility back row gig. Pearson may be a wild card - much as I like Willis, and bar France he mostly went OK in the 6N, he didn't look that fast over the ground. I expect Dombrandt to travel, but wouldn't be shocked if he didn't.

As well as Chessum went pre injury he's not likely to be at 100%. Also quite possible that Lawes won't be at previous levels. One way or another I expect Martin to be on the plane.

Wish our 9 options were more inspiring. The 3 10s make sense although none really cover other positions.

I think Marchant is available. With both Manu and Lawrence (and Faz / Slade in an emergency) able to play 12 and his ability to also cover wing he might get a look in at the expense of Kelly, or even Malins.

 

[BPM]

A fair chunk of that I agree with.

IIRC, the reason LCD's transfer to Montpellier was cancelled was due to a super stringent medical. There's a good chance he's fit to play, in which case he surely goes.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

What about Ben Spencer for the bolter third 9 slot. Captain at bath, worked with faz before.

 

[Noonz]

FWIW I think right now Borthwick goes:
LP (3): Genge, Vunipola, Rodd
HK (3): George, McGuigan, Walker
TP (3): Sinckler, Cole, Stuart
LK (3): Itoje, Chessum, Ribbans
LK/FL (1): Lawes
FL (3): Curry, Ludlam, Willis
N8 (2): Mercer, Dombrandt
SH (3): Van Poortvliet, Mitchell, Youngs
FH (3): Farrell, Ford, Smith
IC (2): Tuilagi, Kelly
OC (2): Slade, Lawrence
WG (3): Watson, Malins, Arundell
FB (1): Steward
UB (1): Daly

I'd be really surprised if it deviates much from that.

This is so uninspiring, which means it's highly likely

 

[BPM]

For the most part, I think it's what we have to work with.

Who would make it more inspiring?

The only players I'd be actively against are Mako and to a lesser extent, Cole. Mako is well past his best and VRR, Obano or maybe McIntyre would offer more. Cole looked off the pace in the 6N but Heyes has done OK without ever really establishing himself. I'm not too bothered by which of them is 3rd choice tighthead.

There are plenty of back three options who could potentially add more excitement than those @Pieter Steph du Teague listed, but most of those are untested. Radwan and OHC have a couple of caps each, Murley is still uncapped. Sure they might add more, but the reality is that none of them is likely to feature much even if they do make the squad.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wouldn't read too much into Care considering JvP, Youngs, Mitchell, Quirke, Warr all unavailable

Imagine it'll be Randall and Care (or, hopefully, Spencer and Care) named as 9s but just to fill shirts/neither will make the rwc

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

That is a lot of likely squad members ruled out. Reckon we see something like:

Hookers: George, Walker
Props: Genge, Obano, Sinckler, Stuart
Locks: Launchbury, Clarke, Ewels (is he even fit yet? Lock is very hard. Itoje, Isiekwe, Hill, Ribbans, Chessum and Martin all unavailable)
Back Rowers: Willis, Pearson, Rogerson, T. Hill (probably doing a lot of filling in at lock), Mercer, Dombrandt, Simmonds
Scrum Halves: Care, Spencer, Randall
Fly Halves: Smith, Bailey
Centres: S. Atkinson, Slade, Lawrence, Marchant
Back Three: Hassell-Collins, May, Loader, Murley, Arundell

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ewels is(/was?) on loan to a club in South Africa to get game time - not sure on the curry cup dates so don't know if he's back yet

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Ewels is(/was?) on loan to a club in South Africa to get game time - not sure on the curry cup dates so don't know if he's back yet

**** it, bring back Kruiso. He'd still be our best lock.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

**** it, bring back Kruiso. He'd still be our best lock.

Never understood why EJ dropped him during the last RWC.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Never understood why EJ dropped him during the last RWC.

Don't think he was dropped so much as he fitted EJ's finisher role more than starter at that point. In that RWC EJ always started with serious physicality/ball carrying ability to catch the opposition by surprise (M. Vunipola, Sinckler, Lawes, B. Vunipola, Tuilagi) before being replaced by more mature, reliable heads to finish out the game (Marler, Cole, Kruis, Wilson, Joseph). I get the impression that EJ always rated Kruis massively but in that game plan he was just more suited to the bench role. And in fairness, it worked very well until we faced SA.

 

[Reiser99]

That is a lot of likely squad members ruled out. Reckon we see something like:

Hookers: George, Walker
Props: Genge, Obano, Sinckler, Stuart
Locks: Launchbury, Clarke, Ewels (is he even fit yet? Lock is very hard. Itoje, Isiekwe, Hill, Ribbans, Chessum and Martin all unavailable)
Back Rowers: Willis, Pearson, Rogerson, T. Hill (probably doing a lot of filling in at lock), Mercer, Dombrandt, Simmonds
Scrum Halves: Care, Spencer, Randall
Fly Halves: Smith, Bailey
Centres: S. Atkinson, Slade, Lawrence, Marchant
Back Three: Hassell-Collins, May, Loader, Murley, Arundell

Ewels