England 2024/25

[Geordie]

So has Asher Opoku-Fordjour.

Seriously?
Edit - Yes i see he has...wow. Great experience for the lad.

 

[Geordie]

How much will CCS be used at Lock? I can see him and THill getting experience there this tour as Genuine cover, given how many back rowers we have and how many injuries Chessum, Martin and Coles have had. And no ready made replacements. Isiekwe has been in but not that much, Arthur Clarke is good but not sure how favoured.

Do we use CCS as some power in the row and allowing us to have that mobility in the back row. Or he comes on and Willis comes on to keep the physicality up.

Don't love it unless he moves there for club I'm just curious.

I think we'd be better served giving some of the locks the actual game time.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's inevitable that they'll shoe horn one of the 6s in for some lock time but yeah, if they actually start any of the games that'll be infuriating - we need to be looking at our actual lock depth not seeing whether players who rarely/barely play there can hang at international level to cover there from the bench

 

[BPM]

I’m hoping Batley gets in. Probably rivalling Chessum for being the best lock in the league this season despite missing a chunk of it through injury.

 

[Geordie]

I'm hoping Batley gets in. Probably rivalling Chessum for being the best lock in the league this season despite missing a chunk of it through injury.

Its an opportunity for a few of the younger or fringe players. They need to take it.

We have Itoje and Chessum for the mobile loosehead lock spot and Coles 3rd in line who should start in Argentina. IMO I think we're more in the market for the "tighthead" lock spot. George Martin just seems to pick up ****ly injuries at inconvenient moments. and we really dont have alot else behind him. Tuima was much touted last season but hasnt really put his hand up this season.

Or does it matter if you have a "tight head and loose head lock" or is too much made of it? Is it better to have just two physical athletic locks?

 

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ballast in the scrum and maul can't be understated, especially when we don't really have a big lump in the backrow

Two athletic locks can definitely work, but I do feel like trying to find a proper backup tighthead lock would be preferable - not sure who that would be though, so would rather two athletic locks who are knocking on the door trialled rather than shoe horning in a bigger lock who doesn't look ready just for the sake of it

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Clark seems like the proper tighthead who’s next in line, but do think he’s a fairly significant step down in terms of quality from Coles and Isiekwe. Still very young though. Think he’s worth investing time into.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If only we could have a younger kruis again.. Him and itoje were our best lock pairing since the 2003 squad imo.

Also the grossly overlooked Dave attwood

 

[McTallshort]

If only we could have a younger kruis again.. Him and itoje were our best lock pairing since the 2003 squad imo.

Also the grossly overlooked Dave attwood

Ben Kay and Simon Shaw were pretty good as were Lawes and Launchbury

 

[Geordie]

If only we could have a younger kruis again.. Him and itoje were our best lock pairing since the 2003 squad imo.

Also the grossly overlooked Dave attwood

Attwood was badly overlooked i do agree.

Kruis was a class act but he was 2 months shy of his 25th Birthday when he got his first England Cap (ignoring Saxons etc)

Clarke is 23 and in and around the squad and is already 19st. And Lockett who was impressive in the A game, is only 22 but needs a few meat pies in him.
Plenty of time to develop...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ben Kay and Simon Shaw were pretty good as were Lawes and Launchbury

We did go through a period where we were blessed with good lock depth but I do think kruis-itoje topped the tables.

Lawes really hit his peak in his final years and was a big step up on his already formidable form. It would have been interesting to see how he would have been if he'd played 6 at a time when our flanker depth wasn't very good.

 

[BPM]

Just seen Jacob Umaga has been called up by Samoa. Funny to think he was once considered an England prospect.

With the exception of the Smiths a lot of the 10s we've had in that age bracket have had strange career trajectories. Umaga, Grayson, Manu Vunipola etc.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Training squad

Forwards
Fin Baxter (Harlequins)
Richard Capstick (Exeter Chiefs)
Arthur Clark (Gloucester Rugby)
Alex Coles (Northampton Saints)
Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins)
Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
Theo Dan (Saracens)
Trevor Davison (Northampton Saints)
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins)
Afolabi Fasogbon (Gloucester Rugby)
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)
Manny Iyogun (Northampton Saints)
Jack Kenningham (Harlequins)
George Kloska (Bristol Bears)
Curtis Langdon (Northampton Saints)
Tom Lockett (Northampton Saints)
Gabriel Oghre (Bristol Bears)
Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks)
Tom Willis (Saracens)

Backs
Charlie Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby)
Seb Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby)
Oscar Beard (Harlequins)
Charlie Bracken (Saracens)
Joe Carpenter (Sale Sharks)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints)
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs)
George Ford (Sale Sharks)
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White (Sale Sharks)
Cadan Murley (Harlequins)
Luke Northmore (Harlequins)
Will Porter (Harlequins)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints)

Rehabilitation: George Furbank (Northampton Saints).
Not considered for selection: Joe Batley (Bristol Bears), Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), George Martin (Leicester Tigers), Harry Randall (Bristol Bears).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Quirke stealing a living, but generally happy with that

Would prefer another lock over one of Pearson, Capstick or Dombrandt though, tbh

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Very pleased to see Curry hasn't been sidelined by injury.

Position breakdown is:
LP: Baxter, Rodd, Iyogun
HK: Langdon, Dan, Oghre
TP: Davison, Fasogbon, Kloska
LK: Coles, Isiekwe, Clark, Lockett, Capstick
FL: Curry, Cunningham-South, Kenningham, Pearson
N8: Willis, Dombrandt
SH: Quirke, Porter, Bracken
FH: Ford, Atkinson
IC: Dingwall, Ma'asi-White, Atkinson
OC: Slade, Beard, Northmore
WG: Feyi-Waboso, Roebuck, Sleightholme, Murley
FB: Carpenter (+ Furbank)

 

[BPM]

OK so that’s:

1. Baxter / Rodd / Iyogun
2. Dan / Langdon / Oghre
3. Davison / Fasogbon / Kloska
4. Coles / Lockett / Capstick?
5. Isiekwe / Clark
6. Cunningham-South / Kenningham
7. B. Curry / Pearson
8. T. Willis / Dombrandt
9. Quirke / Porter / Bracken
10. Ford / C. Atkinson
11. Sleightholme / Murley
12. F. Dingwall / S. Atkinson / Ma’asi White
13. Beard / Northmore
14. Feyi-Waboso / Roebuck
15. Carpenter

A couple of dubious selections but no really glaring omissions

 

[BPM]

Given the question marks over IFW's fitness, Elliott and Brown-Bampoe might feel hard done by.

I would have gone with Clement over Capstick.

Can't think of too many other changes?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't clock IFW - that feels like a very silly inclusion, Baxter said last week he's not even back in full training yet

Forgot Capstick can play lock, always think of him as a 7/8 - only played there a few times this season, but that's a few more than CCS so still an upgrade on experience, I guess

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Think Capstick is probably a very useful guy to have in training since he can slot in as a legitimate option anywhere from 4-8.