England vs Wales - 12/08/23

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd go full strength as we need a victory!

Genge
George
Stuart - guess Sinckler will start though
Itoje
Chessum or martin
Lawes
Willis
Ludlum or Billy (if I have to)
Youngs
Farrell
Daly
Manu
Lawrence
Watson
Steward

Theo
Genge
Cole
Someone who's fit
Earl
Care
Smith
Arendull or Malins

I'm nervous though, one more dire performance and I get the feeling the press will turn on SB and that will be our WC over.

Genge will be in for a busy afternoon.

Largely agree, although I'd be very tempted to rest George completely in the warm ups. The other 2 need the time and an injury to him in a meaningless match could jeopardise our entire set piece….and you're not getting far without that. It's far preferable that he's undercooked for the group games than possibly injured.

 

[Which Tyler]

When's the last time England lost four on the bounce other than in a test series.

Not sure what this exception means TBH, given that 3 of our losses came in a test series, and the 4th came in a different test series.
But...

February - June 2018 when Eddie was doing his "Practice RWC" thing, and absolutely beasting the players pretty-much right up to kick-off, and lost 6 on the trot.
Burt lost 5 on the trot in June & Nuvember 2014; but that was 4 in a row against NZ, followed up by RSA
MJ's worst was 3 losses and a draw Feb-June 2010
And, of course, Robinson went 7 losses in a row in 2006 (his win ratio that year was 3 from 11) before being sacked
SCW went 4 losses in a row in 1998, and again in 2004
And the Rowell => SCW hand over period went 7 matches without a win (2L for JR; 3L 2D for SCW)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The Times are saying Daly, Lawrence and Arundell all to start - be interesting to see whether Arundell goes to wing or 15. He has much more experience at 15 than wing, but wing has a lot less pressure on him
Also does Daly go to 11, 13 or 15? Gotta presume 11, but it's been so long since he's played there properly

11. Daly, 12. Farrell, 13. Lawrence, 14. Watson, 15. Arundell?
11. Arundell, 12. Lawrence, 13. Daly, 14. Watson, 15. Malins?
11. Daly, 12. Lawrence, 13. Marchant, 14. Arundell, 15. Watson?
11. Arundell, 12. Farrell, 13. Lawrence, 14. Watson, 15. Daly?

Who knows

 

[Welsh Exile]

When's the last time England lost four on the bounce other than in a test series. Could quite easily be five with Ireland coming up away. Then i can easily see Argentina beating us as I'll confidence will be shot.

You're kinda in the same boat as us* in that does it really matter if you finish first or second that much? Even though Argentina, perhaps, look like a beater team at the moment, does it really matter if you play Wales or Australia?

*similar boats as we're in a more precarious position re our group and whether we actually get out of it. No way you lose to Japan so you're almost guaranteed qualification.

 

[Welsh Exile]

In fact, let me open this question up to all you English. Would you rather play Wales or an Eddie Jones Australia in a qtr final?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

11. Daly, 12. Lawrence, 13. Daly, 14. Arundell, 15. Watson?

You really need to start proof-reading your posts my guy

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You really need to start proof-reading your posts my guy

Do keep up, Borthwick's prioritising flexibility…..

 

[Reiser99]

In fact, let me open this question up to all you English. Would you rather play Wales or an Eddie Jones Australia in a qtr final?

Depending on how the rest of the warm ups go, Aus because they could well be on a losing streak like us and so confidence will be hit. I can easily see you guys being in a better position, especially if you beat S.A in your last game.

Flip it back, who would you prefer in the quarters right now? Arg or Eng (assuming we get there)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You really need to start proof-reading your posts my guy

Nah, Daly covers both - ball won't get beyond 10 so you don't need a full backline

(shoulda said Marchant)

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

In fact, let me open this question up to all you English. Would you rather play Wales or an Eddie Jones Australia in a qtr final?

Personally would much rather face Wales in a 'Devil you know' kinda way. Six Nations showed that under the current coaches an English 1st choice side is fully capable of taking down a Welsh 1st choice side, so I'd go into that game fairly confident.

Alternatively, while they're not all firing at the moment the Aus side has plenty of genuinely world class players in it who I honestly believe could take down anyone on their day.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Depending on how the rest of the warm ups go, Aus because they could well be on a losing streak like us and so confidence will be hit. I can easily see you guys being in a better position, especially if you beat S.A in your last game.

Flip it back, who would you prefer in the quarters right now? Arg or Eng (assuming we get there)

Would definitely prefer Argentina. There's not much between any of us really but we just have a much better record against them. But to be honest having either Argentina or England in a qtr final is pretty sweet compared to the other qtr finals we're going to likely see.

 

[Saintjay]

Not sure what this exception means TBH, given that 3 of our losses came in a test series, and the 4th came in a different test series.
But...

February - June 2018 when Eddie was doing his "Practice RWC" thing, and absolutely beasting the players pretty-much right up to kick-off, and lost 6 on the trot.
Burt lost 5 on the trot in June & Nuvember 2014; but that was 4 in a row against NZ, followed up by RSA
MJ's worst was 3 losses and a draw Feb-June 2010
And, of course, Robinson went 7 losses in a row in 2006 (his win ratio that year was 3 from 11) before being sacked
SCW went 4 losses in a row in 1998, and again in 2004
And the Rowell => SCW hand over period went 7 matches without a win (2L for JR; 3L 2D for SCW)

My thinking was simply that a test series down under against the AB's would certainly skew the stats against a coach. As you exampled with Eddie againt NZ.

 

[Scotty]

The Times are saying Daly, Lawrence and Arundell all to start - be interesting to see whether Arundell goes to wing or 15. He has much more experience at 15 than wing, but wing has a lot less pressure on him
Also does Daly go to 11, 13 or 15? Gotta presume 11, but it's been so long since he's played there properly

11. Daly, 12. Farrell, 13. Lawrence, 14. Watson, 15. Arundell?
11. Arundell, 12. Lawrence, 13. Daly, 14. Watson, 15. Malins?
11. Daly, 12. Lawrence, 13. Marchant, 14. Arundell, 15. Watson?
11. Arundell, 12. Farrell, 13. Lawrence, 14. Watson, 15. Daly?

Who knows

Arundell had most of his highlight reel stuff at 15 right? Surley its with giving him a chance there. Is he an international 15 yet? God know but is Daly? When did Watson last play there?(never?). Better to find out now that at the WC.

Id go for the

Lawrence Marchant
Daly Arundell Watson

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Arundell had most of his highlight reel stuff at 15 right?

Yeah, his only start on the wing in senior rugby was the game vs Ireland
Presume he's come off the bench on the wing a few times but every start he's had at Irish was at 15

 

[Bada-Bing!]

How is Arundell like under the high ball?

 

[Scotty]

How is Arundell like under the high ball?

I couldnt tell you either way tbh but its not what he's known for, issue is if the gameplan is just to kick it back rather than run it then Steward is a better fit, same as Smith vs Faz at 10.

 

[Saintjay]

In fact, let me open this question up to all you English. Would you rather play Wales or an Eddie Jones Australia in a qtr final?

I'll let you know after Saturday. At the moment I'd say Aus because i think we have them in the forwards and are record against them is decent.

The anarchist in me would love to see the RFU's faces if Eddie put one over on us.

Not sure i could handle the grief by my welsh friends getting knocked out by Wales. Hearing about "2015" is dragging on a little.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'll let you know after Saturday. At the moment I'd say Aus because i think we have them in the forwards and are record against them is decent.

The anarchist in me would love to see the RFU's faces if Eddie put one over on us.

Not sure i could handle the grief by my welsh friends getting knocked out by Wales. Hearing about "2015" is dragging on a little.

You have Welsh friends??

 

[Saintjay]

You have Welsh friends??

I'm surprised i even have friends

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yeah, I'd go as close to full strength as we can manage, too
I read something that Manu isn't in contention for this week - not injured, just managing game time (maybe he's pencilled in to start vs Ireland?)

My guess at SB's side is:
Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Martin
Ludlam, Willis, Vunipola (is Billy even fit? Lawes, Willis, Ludlam if not)
JvP, Ford,
Watson, Farrell (C), Lawrence, Malins
Steward

Dan, Marler, Stuart, Lawes (Hill), Earl, Youngs, Marchant, Arundel


I saw Rugby Inside Line had collated the predicted sides from all the rugby journos and they all had Itoje at 6 and Lawes at 4, and were saying it's a bit weird for them all to come to that conclusion independently considering Lawes hasn't played lock in years, so I imagine we're quite likely to see that

Itoje at 6 I can get in certain circumstances, but Lawes at 4 and Itoje at 6 is an Eddie type of crazy.