England vs Wales - 12/08/23

[TRF_Olyy]

​

 

[Welsh Exile]

Right, Kieran Williams better start this one. I like Max Llewellyn but after his slightly underwhelming game last week I think Kieran has a great chance to put his hand up if he has a good game which he has already demonstrated he can this season against top sides like Leinster, Montpellier, Sarries and Leicester

Gats will probably start Tomokins though. I think Johnny Williams would've been a shoo in for this game but he's injured.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'd like to see something like:

Thomas
Lake
Lewis
Carter
Plumtree
Lydiate
Reffell
Basham (lack of proper 8s is annoying)

Hardy
Owen Williams (Anscombe is out)
Adams
Williams
Roberts
LRZ
Rogers

Bench: Parry, Smith, Thomas, Tshiunza, Wainwright, Davies, Costelow, Grady

No way we do anything silly like have a look at Plumtree in the row, though. We'll start Beard and Francis for sure and we'll lose because those guys are absolute dead weight in attack and almost as useless in defence.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

I like Ollie Chessum but is he really that good a player that you have to risk taking him to a world cup when he is clearly not 100% fit? I could understand if it was Itoje but Chessum is not that special.

 

[Saintjay]

Going early with squad working well then.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I like Ollie Chessum but is he really that good a player that you have to risk taking him to a world cup when he is clearly not 100% fit? I could understand if it was Itoje but Chessum is not that special.

Fit and on form I think he's definitely good enough to make exceptions - will he be fit and on form, though?
Big lay off, especially this early in his career - will he hit the ground running, or take time to readjust? Especially getting dropped straight into international rugby with no club (or a league) games to ease back
It's a risk, especially as he's (apparently) not fit to play atm

 

[Wasps92]

Just be nice to see us go more than 3 phases without dropping the ball.

 

[Saintjay]

Times reporting May might also now play, Marchant training alone for what ever reason.

 

[Which Tyler]

Not being worth risking this weekend =/= not 100% fit in a month's time.
To me, it sounds like he could have played this weekend, but better to give him an extra week to be sure.

Now form, is a different matter entirely, and he'll only have 2 matches to find some.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

View attachment 17290

Porter, May and Hill's motivation must be sky high.

Surely you use this situation to war game what actually might have happened if faced with a similar situation in France if there hadn't been time or injuries hadn't been severe enough to call up a replacement? Logical thing would have been to see how Lawes went in the row.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Times reporting May might also now play, Marchant training alone for what ever reason.

On the naughty step because he asked the coaches if he's allowed to run the ball towards the opposition tryline

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Going early with squad working well then.

I understood the logic, but totally disagreed with it.

While the warm ups have limited value they still tell you a lot more than training and give players / combos a chance to show what they can do. There will also be injuries to contend with.

 

[Saintjay]

Surprised about May. Rumour has it Borthwick has issues with anyone with a surname beginning with M. Mitchell, Mercer, Murley a case in point.

Stems from an alleged incident in Magaluf with Borths mrs and a welsh bloke called Mike Morris.

 

[dullonien]

I'd like to see something like:

Thomas
Lake
Lewis
Carter
Plumtree
Lydiate
Reffell
Basham (lack of proper 8s is annoying)

Hardy
Owen Williams (Anscombe is out)
Adams
Williams
Roberts
LRZ
Rogers

Bench: Parry, Smith, Thomas, Tshiunza, Wainwright, Davies, Costelow, Grady

No way we do anything silly like have a look at Plumtree in the row, though. We'll start Beard and Francis for sure and we'll lose because those guys are absolute dead weight in attack and almost as useless in defence.

According to WO, based on how the sides lined up at the open training session yesterday it could be something like:

Thomas, Lake, Francis
Beard, Davies
Lydiate, Plumtree, Reffell

T. Williams, O. Williams
K. Williams, Roberts
Adams, L. Williams, Rogers

With Parry, Mathias & Tompkins also involved.

Would appear a sensible side, with a good blend of experience and testing some of the new guys.

I think Francis needs a run out to see where he is. He's been poor for a while, not just around the field, but his scrummaging hasn't been great either. Asseratti seemed to struggle technically v England, so it's probably too soon for him - so Francis might be a must.

Not a fan of Beard either, but resigned to him being involved!

Huge opportunity for Owen Williams if he starts. I'd discounted his chances given he missed both training camps, but his versatility of covering 10/12 could put him in a good place. With Anscombe still not ready and Costellow and Biggar getting gametime last sat, it's likely he'll be involved.

Centre combo of Kieran Williams and Joe Roberts would be as raw as it gets, both making their debut, but could have a great balance. Roberts is in the mould of BOD, i.e. a good all rounder, which would complement the Gibbs esque Williams. Could see Tompkins starting though for experience and Williams making an appearance off the bench.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Not being worth risking this weekend =/= not 100% fit in a month's time.
To me, it sounds like he could have played this weekend, but better to give him an extra week to be sure.

Now form, is a different matter entirely, and he'll only have 2 matches to find some.

Exactly. Even if he is physically fit he wont have had the match practice to be playing at his best.

 

[Welsh Exile]

According to WO, based on how the sides lined up at the open training session yesterday it could be something like:

Thomas, Lake, Francis
Beard, Davies
Lydiate, Plumtree, Reffell

T. Williams, O. Williams
K. Williams, Roberts
Adams, L. Williams, Rogers

With Parry, Mathias & Tompkins also involved.

Would appear a sensible side, with a good blend of experience and testing some of the new guys.

I think Francis needs a run out to see where he is. He's been poor for a while, not just around the field, but his scrummaging hasn't been great either. Asseratti seemed to struggle technically v England, so it's probably too soon for him - so Francis might be a must.

Not a fan of Beard either, but resigned to him being involved!

Huge opportunity for Owen Williams if he starts. I'd discounted his chances given he missed both training camps, but his versatility of covering 10/12 could put him in a good place. With Anscombe still not ready and Costellow and Biggar getting gametime last sat, it's likely he'll be involved.

Centre combo of Kieran Williams and Joe Roberts would be as raw as it gets, both making their debut, but could have a great balance. Roberts is in the mould of BOD, i.e. a good all rounder, which would complement the Gibbs esque Williams. Could see Tompkins starting though for experience and Williams making an appearance off the bench.

I feel ashamed I forgot about Rhys Davies. He should be starting. I'd be having him in the final squad all day.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

On the naughty step because he asked the coaches if he's allowed to run the ball towards the opposition tryline

Another example of Borthwick still learning. Training alone? Not a patch on his mentor - straight ostracism, no explanations. Just did it.

Maybe Marchant was calling the moves in French or something.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

It feels like SB is going to have a terrible start to this WC.

All we need is an Owen F injury to complete the shambles.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not being worth risking this weekend =/= not 100% fit in a month's time.
To me, it sounds like he could have played this weekend, but better to give him an extra week to be sure.

Now form, is a different matter entirely, and he'll only have 2 matches to find some.

I guess, with possibly misplaced confidence, it's mid October and the start of the knockout phase when we really need our best players to be hitting their straps. There's time, but it's still a concern.

Notwithstanding everything else, not getting out of this group would be a real nadir that would be the end of several international coaching and playing careers.