[RWC2023] England vs Chile (23/09/2023)

[BrokenWing]

I've not really looked at him for top-end wing-like pace.

Was listening earlier to someone talking about England having a sprint coach and Smith being the fastest in the squad over 20-30 metres.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Which is why I only mentioned 1-on-1 tackles as part of "defence" - which is about so much more.
Off the top of my head (usual proviso.s about being a SH)
Single most important aspect of defence for a FB is probably the high ball, then reading the game, then communication with his fellow back 3 players, and his defensive captain, then tackle technique in general, then defensive rucking, and finally 1-on-1 tackling specifically.

Every position has a lot of facets. We should be looking for players to be competent at all and outstanding at some, preferably 'the basics'. I could've coped with Mako being adequate in the scrum when he was also playing 10 and making 15 tackles per game. What I could never cope with was him being downright poor in the scrum or Daly being such a defensive liability at 15.

Re Smith at FB - over simplification, but if he sets up 2 scores per game but his defence costs us 1, that's still a net gain. Who knows how good he really could be - only significant time there with Quins (unlikely) will tell us. It's a very interesting idea, but being clueless and trying to find out going into RWC knockout games would be madness.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Was listening earlier to someone talking about England having a sprint coach and Smith being the fastest in the squad over 20-30 metres.

A very damning indictment of our back three if true. Especially since thinking about it, the only one I'd actually be surprised to see him beat is Arundell.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I kind of see it as the pros of him being at FB will outweigh the cons. There might be times where his inexperience at FB is exposed, can't handle the high balls etc but his attacking prowess will make up for it. If England persist with Stewart, they are limiting their attack. 15 is one of the best channels to attack through and IMO a FB really should have the speed and agility of a wing. He's a wing that can catch and kick. I can't imagine him struggling that much at 15 though. He's incredibly skilled, much more so than Farrell.

I can understand the pros outweighing the cons if our tactics allowed it. Our tactics do the exact opposite though, they will minimise the amount of time he has on the ball (minimising his strengths) and will maximise the number of opportunities our opponents will have to kick to challenge Smith's positioning and aerial ability. Our own tactics will play to his weaknesses, not his strengths.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

A very damning indictment of our back three if true. Especially since thinking about it, the only one I'd actually be surprised to see him beat is Arundell.

Yep. It's often the speed off the mark and first 5 metres that's the killer and Smith definitely has that. I'd have guessed that peak May or Watson would have done him over 30 for sure and probably 20. Would guess that Earl would figure pretty high over 30.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yep. It's often the speed off the mark and first 5 metres that's the killer and Smith definitely has that. I'd have guessed that peak May or Watson would have done him over 30 for sure and probably 20. Would guess that Earl would figure pretty high over 30.

Was thinking the same about Earl. Genuinely wouldn't be shocked to find out he was in the top 3 along with Smith and Arundell. Explosive forwards tend to do very well over 20-30 metres. Think Iain Henderson was top of the Ireland squad over 20m a few years ago (might have just been Ulster squad).

 

[BrokenWing]

I think it's what made Robinson so good, IMO his top end speed wasn't all that but my word he could hit that top end in no time at all.

 

[Jimbo]

Was listening earlier to someone talking about England having a sprint coach and Smith being the fastest in the squad over 20-30 metres.

That's very believable, I've always maintained he has exceptional acceleration but average top end speed.

 

[Jimbo]

Every position has a lot of facets. We should be looking for players to be competent at all and outstanding at some, preferably 'the basics'. I could've coped with Mako being adequate in the scrum when he was also playing 10 and making 15 tackles per game. What I could never cope with was him being downright poor in the scrum or Daly being such a defensive liability at 15.

Re Smith at FB - over simplification, but if he sets up 2 scores per game but his defence costs us 1, that's still a net gain. Who knows how good he really could be - only significant time there with Quins (unlikely) will tell us. It's a very interesting idea, but being clueless and trying to find out going into RWC knockout games would be madness.

It would but FS soley talking defensively is a liability in most things outside of the high ball, he's been shown up a fair few times recently and will be targeted id suspect, Daly played a fair bit of 15 before issues occurred.

 

[Scotty]

That's very believable, I've always maintained he has exceptional acceleration but average top end speed.

Thats why he is so good though, accelerates into the gap and beats them on the outside, top end often isnt an issue as they have to turn, with his playmaking skills he just offloads.

Acceleration > top end speed. IMO, you need a balance ofcourse along with power.

 

[ncurd]

I think it's what made Robinson so good, IMO his top end speed wasn't all that but my word he could hit that top end in no time at all.

His footwork to beat defenders as well, remember watching him play for Sale at Twickenham once before the Premiership final when we use have a european cup playoff match beforehand. You could hear the collective gasps in the stadium every time he got the ball.

2nd best Twickenham moment, 1st was Lawrence Dalliagio's last game for Wasps and the entire stadium applauding him off.

 

[Zed]

Wait, what?
Smith?
When did that happen?
He's a fly half who can run reasonably fast (or at least, change direction and accelerate well), I've not really looked at him for top-end wing-like pace.

Yeah what Pieter said. Sorry came out wrong!

 

[Geordie]

Borthwick won't change too many as he's too conservative. He's also going to be hard pressed to change too many after we get to a World Cup final

I also hope that we start using talented players rather than some of the ones we currently have.

He might not have a choice....

There'll be a few who retire, a few off to France and some who just need changed.

I don't think SB is actually as Conservative as people think.

 

[Nudger]

Okay but where is the logic part

Like all the posts it's my option,but none of these guys have subs on the bench at club rugby,it only undermines them

 

[Becca]

Malins is barley faster than a snail, so let's leave him in the changing room please.

Or maybe on the bus ?

 

[LIONSxv]

Smith would have better initial acceleration than Arundall. Due the difference in weight and build. I would imagine over 100m Arundall would be seconds faster than Smith however
Seen some reports that Arundall is quicker than peak May which was very fast