England wingers

[psychic duck]

When will England pick Christian Wade? He is in my opinion, the most exciting winger England have produced since Robinson retired. He could be like the English version of Shane Williams. He's been pretty consistent as well, hasn't had a second season slump at all.

And if England really think Wade can't play because of his weaknesses, and want a winger with a full back type skillset, then why not pick Jonny May? He is rapid, not quite as agile as Wade, and can make a few errors, but a very exciting option. If they want a safe option, then Ugo Monye would be a good choice as well, Tom Varndell has been scoring tries for fun of late as well. May, Wade and Monye also did well on those tour matches against SA Barbarians in June IIRC.

England can do so much better than Brown and Ashton as wingers.

Any chance that England will give chances to some more talented wingers like Wade in Argentina?

 

[nickdnz]

Agree 100% with all four of those names. Wade is the most exciting winger I've seen for England, the second most impressive U20's winger I've seen in the last decade aside from Savea. Yes hi defense is a bit suspect - but so is Ashton's, and he's 1000x more exciting. Johnny May I'm a tad less excited about - but you can't knock his form atm and as you say he's got the skill set England like. Varndell is in the form of his career (remember many writing him off completely a few years back) - and Ugo Monye has probably been the most safe and consistent winger in the Prem for the last two seasons - when he can't play randomly at fullback England seemed to just dismiss him.

 

[ratsapprentice]

This is looking like it's going to be Varndell's third season of being the highest Premiership try scorer, he will not be picked.
At the moment the current thinking is that Lancaster is going to pick Wade and some other backs from the Saxons in the touring squad.

 

[psychic duck]

I feel sorry for Varndell. He won 4 caps (scoring 3 tries btw) back in June 2006. I feel some of he is still paying for some of his frailties shown back then, and has just been dismissed because of them. Not much more you can do than keep on scoring try after try.

It seems especially harsh compared Ashton who has got much more chances and now can't be dropped despite having similar weaknesses. Mike Brown on the ottherjand is an obvious attempt to copy and try and replicate the success New Zealand had with converting Cory Jane to wing and playing two full backs. But I just don't see it when England have got some great wingers available.

Strettle is another strange selection. He's okay and a safe option, but if England want a safe option then Monye is better than Strettle (or Cueto before him) in my opinion and as Nickdnz says he was just suddenly ditched because of a bad match at full back.

Another I forgot to mention on the OP is James Simpson-Daniel, very good player, but only got 10 caps which is less than Banahan's, he also had to sit on the sidelines whilst the l. Age might be a factor with him now for a recall, but I hope (from a neutral's perspective) England don't waste the talents of Wade like they did with him.

On another note what an earth happened to Topsy Ojo? Was very impressive for London Irish, scored 2 tries vs All Blacks, then seemed to simply vanish. Only a few months after his debut he seemed forgotten and hardly mentioned, no idea how he is playing these days though.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ojo looks very average in the premiership, Marland Yarde on the other wing for LI looks very impressive though, was our other U20 winger with Wade.
U20 and Exeter winger Jack Nowell has just won the LV cup breakthrough player award.
Tom Biggs has looked good too, and knows Lancaster from his time at Leeds, but I have a feeling he isn't going to get anything more than a couple of cameo caps, if that.
Kyle Eastmond has been playing at 12 for Bath recently, and looks very, very strong there. I believe Lancaster sees him as a 15 though, but I could see him playing anywhere in the backs tbh. The guy is massively talented, his hands are better than any of the other potential back three. He is very short though, I dunno how much that will impact his chances at international level in terms of selection.


[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD3Tjt8sp2c[/video]
1:00^
[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpJCYUz-YUE[/video]
00:44^

There are other guys playing well across the league, the guys down at Glos and Thompstone for the tigers for example.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

May would definitely be my first choice. Eastmond would make a good utility-bench option, covering wing/centre/FB. I rate him very highly, and he's really growing as a Union player.
I like Wade, I really do, but I can't see him being selected by Lancaster anytime soon for anything other than mid-week tour games. I don't like to say players are too small for int. rugby as there are many many tiny, but great, rugby player - however Wade's defence and physicality is not good enough for int. rugby/Lancaster's England. I've seen him get cleared out of a ruck by another back just pushing him over with one hand. Just needs more time, I think - another season or so. But then I'd rather May to Wade anyhow.

 

[Peat]

Christian Wade has bumped Tony Buckley into touch and cut Iain Henderson down before he could hit the line saving a more or less certain try. The kid will tackle and will put himself on the line - not doing so being the accusation that's held Varndell back. I'd like to see him given a go. Considering what he brings going towards their tryline, I feel we have to.

I'd also like to throw in Bendy, Thompstone and Elliot as potential options. Christ, put Foden back in. At least he's quick enough for it and makes his tackles.

We have tons of wingers. That we're mucking around with an out of form winger and an out of position full-back is poor. That the full-back in question is massively outshining the winger is just insult to injury.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wade is pretty good at tackling, he is ok under the high ball but sometimes get's caught out positionally. He in no way lacks commitment though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Agree on Abendanon and Thompstone - two of my favourite backthree players in the prem at the moment.
You could replace Goode with Bendy, Brown with Thompstone and Ashton with Wade or May and have a backthree made up of on form players who know how to score and wouldn't lose anything in terms of defence - kicking? perhaps, but I'd rather them keep the ball in hand anyhow.

 

[ratsapprentice]

We wouldn't lose anything at all by replacing Ashton atm, he can't kick, is terrible in the air and is a liability in defence. That's regardless of whether he's on form too.
If he doesn't click with the 10 or 15 then he is utterly useless, if he does then he is deadly. He has average pace, power, agility, is not elusive and has no footballing skills to speak of, his supporting lines are literally his only strength.
I do like Bendy a lot, but he seems like the sort of player who would be unable to bring his game to international level as does Thompstone.

 

[Peat]

Am I the only person who's looking at the U20 side and wishing we could swap wingers?

In fairness - Brown is a form player at full-back, and someone who I feel could make a big difference to the team from there. He's not even doing that badly, he gets caught out defensively from time to time and he's never going to make a big break, but he makes his tackles and always makes ground. Brown at full-back would be the first change I made for England.

Also, at the moment, England are an absolute pain in the anus to kick to. Its part of the pressure we exert. Goode/Brown's positioning really cut down on the space to kick too, particularly as they can return it with interest very nicely. We would probably lose some of that if we changed things but probably not too much if we went with, say, Brown, Abendanon, and May.

 

[jordiev]

haha imagine having wade and eastmond in the same backline... would be tiny! like the opposite of wales.
for the moment i would have a preference for may guy just oozes class and has a really well rounded game and would love to see the new age varndell rip it up on the international stage now his game has developed so much but that wont happen but one can hope alot of people seem to be suggesting thompstone...i dont really see international class with him.. what makes you think he is? (as i have not been able to follow the tigers that avidly this year)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The difference to the side just by shifting Brown to 15 and Abendanon in on the wing would be massive, I think. Then May or Thompstone in for Ashton...

Lancaster should let TRF be team selectors for a match or two over the summer - I reckon we'd do OK.


Edit: Thompstone is just a very good/dependable winger. He's not flashy like Wade, creating a try for nothing, but he's a great finisher, got a decent boot, solid defence and good positioning/reader of the game. Got a decent record this season for Tigers (8 tries in all comps - highest at Tigers, I think).
He got a hattrick on his debut for Tigers:

 

[Aedaphon]

Good to see that I'm not the only one despairing at the state of our back 3. I don't believe Goode has been bad at all, it's just that Lancaster has (quite rightly for the first few games of the 6 nations) stuck with the side that performed so well against the All Blacks. Just about everyone was on fire that day and so I don't criticise him for coming into the 6 Nations and sticking to his guns.

However, at this point our whole backline has lacked a little spark, and that being the case it seems unfair to single out any one player because we really haven't had that much ball in open space.

Nevertheless, I really do think Ashton needs to go. When he's on form he is great at what he does but, now that Farrell has rightly nailed down the starting jersey, and Foden is out of the England set up at the moment, Ashton is less than half the winger he was two years ago. Farrell is our best option at the moment, but he doesn't take it to the line like Flood does. What we need is someone who can spark something on the outside, or just put down the hammer with a little bit of space.

I don't think Brown has done all that poorly, even out of position, but I certainly think May, Wade and Varndell could have been called up in Ashton's this 6 Nation.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ashton is effectively there from form a few seasons ago. He hasn't been dreadful just hasn't been great where as Wade is impressive and has killer pace. Also I know he hit and miss but I like Biggs at Bath. He's decent but obviously not up there with best

 

[sifplay]

Don't think scoring bucketloads of tries should guarentee you selection. How many of those did he create out of himself or finished it with a lot of work to do. How is his chasing cause that is how England play. They are keen on defensive capable wingers like South Africa

 

[McTallshort]

When have any of our back 3 taken a high ball thats been competed? I cannot remember one this 6N

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

which out of those potencial wingers is the left and which are right wingers?

Just look at the saxons wingers btw - Sharples, Wade, May, Aberdon, Eastmond, Biggs, Monye

I'd take all of those over Ashton and Brown (i'd move brown to 15).

 

[j'nuh]

which out of those potencial wingers is the left and which are right wingers?

Just look at the saxons wingers btw - Sharples, Wade, May, Aberdon, Eastmond, Biggs, Monye

I'd take all of those over Ashton and Brown (i'd move brown to 15).

Left: Biggs, Monye
Right: Wade, Sharples

May is playing left wing atm, but JSD will move back into the position before long. Long-term, I reckon May and Sharples will compete for the right wing, with May also playing a little 11 and 13.

Eastmond has played more right wing than left I think, but is more of a 12 now.

Abendanon is a fullback, not sure which wing he'd be more suited to.

Looking at these options:
Sharples hasn't shown a lot this season. His form has had an upturn in recent weeks, so I guess we'll see what happens. Has developed his defensive game though. Should play back into some form first.
Abendanon isn't a winger. Would love him to take Goode's place in the squad...
May hasn't had many Premiership games back yet, but is showing a lot of promise. If he keeps it up, he cannot be ignored. He spent last season out of position at fullback. Although he often lacked in positional awareness, I think a lot of people noted his running ability. On the wing, he gets to use this ability to its fullest extent. The best thing is that he's still got a lot of growing into the position to go through. I think he could be something special, but will not thrive in a kicking game, so whether that appeals to Lancaster is something.
Wade... people talk about his tackling as an issue. But I'm pretty sure that if he was a few inches taller and a stone heavier but performed exactly the same in defense, he'd get in. He surely can't be a worse defender than Ashton?
Eastmond is an interesting one. I would actually like to see him on the account that he would be the ultimate player for the 23 shirt. Don't think anyone knows what his long-term position is though...
Biggs - yes. Creative and decent in defense. Would prefer May, but both to take the places of Strettle and Ashton please.

 

[Peat]

Fairly sure Bendy plays left wing most when he does. Wade switches wings regularly during games, I'd cheerfully give him a go on either. Likewise, fairly sure May can play both.