England World Cup Squad

[higgik]

Group stage exit given our group would be bad and heads would have to role!

Honestly though as long as he gets out of the group we need to give him a real chance post WC to build, he was never going to be a quick fix type of coach IMO (like EJ did when he first came in) but he can build something if given time.

Can, doesnt mean he will manage it but i dont want to be chopping and changing coaches everytime we have a few bad results especially when the squad was bad before he got it.

Post WC for the first 2 years will be his test, rebuild in the first and needs improvement on the second.

I am beginning to wonder if there are cliques within the camp and certain groups do not mix.
We know Dave Attwood does not get on with Farrell and I wonder if the same as the England football team is happening, when Utd and Liverpool players wouldn't talk.

 

[Reiser99]

I am beginning to wonder if there are cliques within the camp and certain groups do not mix.
We know Dave Attwood does not get on with Farrell and I wonder if the same as the England football team is happening, when Utd and Liverpool players wouldn't talk.

Definitely remember one point against Wales that Smith seemed furious people weren't in position. I think that's why he dropped the ball because he changed plans as people either weren't ready or weren't set up right. I might be wrong though.

 

[higgik]

Definitely remember one point against Wales that Smith seemed furious people weren't in position. I think that's why he dropped the ball because he changed plans as people either weren't ready or weren't set up right. I might be wrong though.

And when they were we saw a great break by Marchant.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I am beginning to wonder if there are cliques within the camp and certain groups do not mix.
We know Dave Attwood does not get on with Farrell and I wonder if the same as the England football team is happening, when Utd and Liverpool players wouldn't talk.

You'd hope not although there was talk of issues with Saracens players during all the salary cap / relegation stuff. That ought to be well in the rear view mirror by now and if nothing else Borthwick and Farrell should recognise the need for a tight knit squad.

That said, I don't think it's helpful for the coaching team to have such close links with one club - irrespective of personal credentials.

 

[higgik]

You'd hope not although there was talk of issues with Saracens players during all the salary cap / relegation stuff. That ought to be well in the rear view mirror by now and if nothing else Borthwick and Farrell should recognise the need for a tight knit squad.

That said, I don't think it's helpful for the coaching team to have such close links with one club - irrespective of personal credentials.

Billy V interview in DT stating he was disrespectful to SB in front of other players,

Not a good sign, maybe too much player power.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Billy V interview in DT stating he was disrespectful to SB in front of other players,

Not a good sign, maybe too much player power.

In camp before the 2019 RWC so hopefully hatchets have been buried.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Billy V interview in DT stating he was disrespectful to SB in front of other players,

Not a good sign, maybe too much player power.

Flare ups happen, but you just don't do that to people you respect, particularly those in authority. Or if you do you apologise pdq and publicly.

Although a while back now, maybe that's telling and perhaps says a bit about both parties.

 

[Wasps92]

I think a few people including myself first of all saw this W/C as a free hit for Borthwick. Yet with no visible signs of improvement, lack of attack etc. It's the general apathy and lack of interest this England regime is now generating that is just as likely to be his down fall.

Across many forums, pod casts, I've never seen so many dejected England fans. I've certainly never known England going into a W/C with doubts if we can even beat Argentina. I'm going to the game Saturday and even part of me thinks i can't be bothered, it's going to be tedious. I've never felt like that following Saints and England. Some thing be it the results, style of play, has knocked the stuffing out of players and fans. As far as I'm aware participation in rugby in England is falling and this England team isn't going to get youngsters joining a club. That alone must be concerning to the RFU.

The big concern for me is that he gets the benefit of the doubt and has two years post W/C peddling the whole he now gets to build his team in his style and in his way line. The I've not had time, it's Eddies fault won't wash. If he has a poor world cup, poor six nations i think the RFU won't be able to ignore the boos that will fill the Twickenham night air. The cycle then repeats itself.

I'm too young to remember but I asked my dad when he felt this apathetic about England and he said that whilst there were some poor years after 2003 we still reached a WC final in 2007 and were generally competitive in the Six Nations.

He said he feels like he's watching England from the eighties at the moment such is the lack of interest and general poor performance from the team over a sustained period with seemingly no sign of any improvement on the horizon.

Where are our world class players? Where are the quality young players coming through? I look at France and think that's what we could and should be if the RFU were in any way semi competent.

As it is we have a poor quality league full of clubs who are barely solvent, falling participation numbers and a bunch of old Tory farts at the RFU who are seemingly more bothered about clinging onto their own positions than doing what is best for the game in this country.

 

[BrokenWing]

He said he feels like he's watching England from the eighties at the moment such is the lack of interest and general poor performance from the team over a sustained period with seemingly no sign of any improvement on the horizon.

It certainly looks amateur.

 

[Becca]

My Mum has been watching Rugby all her life, she's 75 now, and she said she couldn't remember seeing a worse performance than last weekends.

 

[Smurfy]

I'm too young to remember but I asked my dad when he felt this apathetic about England and he said that whilst there were some poor years after 2003 we still reached a WC final in 2007 and were generally competitive in the Six Nations.

He said he feels like he's watching England from the eighties at the moment such is the lack of interest and general poor performance from the team over a sustained period with seemingly no sign of any improvement on the horizon.

Where are our world class players? Where are the quality young players coming through? I look at France and think that's what we could and should be if the RFU were in any way semi competent.

As it is we have a poor quality league full of clubs who are barely solvent, falling participation numbers and a bunch of old Tory farts at the RFU who are seemingly more bothered about clinging onto their own positions than doing what is best for the game in this country.

You're giving the owners of the clubs a free pass here. Yes, the RFU is a shambles, but the club owners are responsible in large part for the quality of the league and the level of club debt.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

My Mum has been watching Rugby all her life, she's 75 now, and she said she couldn't remember seeing a worse performance than last weekends.

Feel kinda weird giving this a like (there's not a "yeah Ma!!" button) but your Ma is right.

 

[higgik]

You're giving the owners of the clubs a free pass here. Yes, the RFU is a shambles, but the club owners are responsible in large part for the quality of the league and the level of club debt.

That is why a reset is needed.
1) take control of academies up to U21, this way a lot of expense for clubs is removed and therefore return on investment is not as high.
2) 3 tiers of distinct levels - pro, development and community, (dont care about number of teams or divisions, but we have to realise rugby is not football).
3) fight to get the calendar as blocks of matches so the casual viewer can get involved easier and sponsors get block of advertising.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

On the flip side I'd say the quality or rugby of the league these last few years has been immense.

The product itself is great but the marketing and publicity around it is a shambles. That's not just the RFU but also the premiership and the clubs marketing. They need to realise that it's not all Barbour wearing 50 year old white men that watch the sport.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

On the flip side I'd say the quality or rugby of the league these last few years has been immense.

The product itself is great

It's entertaining and the attacking rugby has been good. Defensively and game management wise, though, some of it has been shocking and this is one of the myriad reasons why we don't progress in Europe and the national team struggles.

They need to realise that it's not all Barbour wearing 50 year old white men that watch the sport.

Agreed. But don't alienate us either…..

 

[Which Tyler]

My Mum has been watching Rugby all her life, she's 75 now, and she said she couldn't remember seeing a worse performance than last weekends.

England v France 2023 @ Twickenham?
Entire 6N (and SIs) campaign(s) 2018? - though at least we had an explanation for that one, even if we'd discounted it as "stuff Eddie says" in advance
South Africa v England 2007 @ Bloemfontein?
England v Argentina 2006 @ Twickenham?
Pretty much the entirety of 2006 TBH
Tour of Hell 1998? - if picking just 1 from that horror show; Aus 76 - 0 Eng is almost certainly the worst performance by England, ever.

I haven't watched last weekend's match yet (nothing I've read has made me want to find it) - but those are my personal nadirs watching England (going back to the late 80s)
I'd also say that nothing I've read about last weekend so far suggests that it's worse than those, excepting recency bias.


ETA: For anyone too young to remember the Tour of Hell - here's that Aussie match: Sorry, had to be a link, as TRF wants to embed it, but can't.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Defensively, though, some of it has been shocking

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

View attachment 17309

He's definitely not talking about my beloved saints. Our defence was amazing

 

[Nudger]

My Mum has been watching Rugby all her life, she's 75 now, and she said she couldn't remember seeing a worse performance than last weekends.

Seem to remember england WINNING the wooden spoon in the 70's

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

England v France 2023 @ Twickenham?
Entire 6N (and SIs) campaign(s) 2018? - though at least we had an explanation for that one, even if we'd discounted it as "stuff Eddie says" in advance
South Africa v England 2007 @ Bloemfontein?
England v Argentina 2006 @ Twickenham?
Pretty much the entirety of 2006 TBH
Tour of Hell 1998? - if picking just 1 from that horror show; Aus 76 - 0 Eng is almost certainly the worst performance by England, ever.

I haven't watched last weekend's match yet (nothing I've read has made me want to find it) - but those are my personal nadirs watching England (going back to the late 80s)
I'd also say that nothing I've read about last weekend so far suggests that it's worse than those, excepting recency bias.


ETA: For anyone too young to remember the Tour of Hell - here's that Aussie match: Sorry, had to be a link, as TRF wants to embed it, but can't.

Plenty of contenders…..

Ire v Eng at Croke Park 2007 has to be high. But possibly well behind the worst GS blow out in history against Wal in 2013.