England XV vs France XV - 21/06/25

[Rugbyfan564]

Carpenter was voted England player of the match,

 

[Reiser99]

The balance of back row, like all parts of the team needs to work.
Willis doing the hard yards, Pepper the rucks, leaving Hill to work out wide is great, but only if the ball is getting wide, where the forward can make good yards in contact.
The game plan needs to be clear and then pick a team to suit.
The issue with SB is that no one likes his game plan and so he picks players by media selection and then tries to fit them to his game plan.
If he want to keep it tight, then pick a big pack, Ford at 10, a big 12, and 2 big wingers to punch holes and to compete aerially.

Part of the issue is we don't know the gameplan. However, either players aren't sticking to it or it doesn't make sense. Either Ford had a mare and decided to kick too much or he was told to kick off any slow ball. However, that then doesn't make sense with picking a dynamic 6 like Hill who you want on the ball. I can't think of one game where SB has got his selections spot on. Occasionally the team has been good, but the bench and how's it's been used is overall very poor.

 

[Booboobang]

It does often feel like england win in spite of borthwick. The game plan rarely fits selection and selection rarely has and concsistent logic. I mean it results in atleast a 50% win percentage on aggregate most of the time because england do have a lot of talent to overcome it, especially when the wheels come of and players have to drop the game plan to chase a game. With the player pool england have, it makes little sense to go tight and kicking rugby, but here we are, years on, seelcting players who dont suit it still trying to force the style.

This is going to be an argentina tour where we dont go young as well, slade is going to be starting every game, so its not as if the player pool is goign to be expanded to fit that style more, its just continued round pegs.

 

[West Country Wail]

Carpenter was voted England player of the match,

Miles ahead of Steward

 

[AlRums]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/c62dz3rpn62o

 

[Quel Carreleur]

As expected, but IMO lucky.
Low severity entry point is 6 weeks, down to 3 for good behaviour and 2 with tackle school.

I'm not convinced that a flying clothesline is low severity.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Only seen IFW's tackle this morning. Don’t really understand why that wasn’t a straight red.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

As with other luxury giraffes - it depends what he's being asked to do.
If his task is to hang out on the wing, giving the inside backs confidence to go wide knowing they've got a pacey backrower out there to support them and pull their arses out of the fire if they misjudge slightly, you can't then drop him for not hanging around midfield or close to every ruck.
The question becomes how to balance the back5 to free him up to do that work, and if it's worth the sacrifice.
I can confidently say that Hill (and Croft before him) is perfectly capable of playing like an orthodox BSF - when (consistently) given that role

It's exactly the same criticism fans had of Tom Croft. We've got a player with a different USP, so we task him to do different things, and then judge him on the things he's been asked not to do.
The problem is the 25% success rate, not the pure number - and even then there's always nuance that needs to be looked at.


Delighted for Seb Atkinson - England's MotM

Tom Croft did a hell of a lot of grunt. Leicester in that time don't tend to do luxury forwards hence why Waldrom left.
Croft was also a genuinely world class line out option.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Anyway, I still think Hill is worth the time this tour, especially as a potential bench option if we are doing the 6/2 split.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Only seen IFW's tackle this morning. Don't really understand why that wasn't a straight red.

Guess it doesn't matter with the new rules, TBF I like the rule takes away a lot of pressure from the refs to make a heat of the moment call.

 

[Seeker]

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Guess it doesn't matter with the new rules, TBF I like the rule takes away a lot of pressure from the refs to make a heat of the moment call.

Yes, although you’d like to hope that a team of 3 on-field officials would have enough courage in their own convictions to take a clear cut decision. The TMO seems to be getting increasingly invasive.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2025/06/21/england-player-ratings/Carpenter - 7/10
Roebuck - 7/10
Slade - 6/10
Atkinson - 7/10
Feyi-Waboso - 2/10
Ford - 6/10
Spencer - 6/10
Baxter - 7/10
George - 7/10
Heyes - 8/10
Coles - 6/10
Isiekwe - 6/10
Hill - 6/10
Pepper - 7/10
Willis - 8/10
Replacements - 5/10 (Praise for Dombrandt and Kenningham)

 

[AlRums]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/c6287ezg9eyo
The second part of this article is relevant in that Woki had his red card rescinded.

 

[Ddanno]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/c6287ezg9eyo
The second part of this article is relevant in that Woki had his red card rescinded.

I'm more relieved by the the first part tbh