England's back line

[Maverick1987]

So after the NZ tour in which I was hoping a few people may nail down their places in the back line literally no one did that . Now we seem to be stuck with an even bigger problem . Quite simply who plays in every position . For me the only person who looks like they have their shirt is Tuilagi . Even brown played poorly (although imo in a fair bit of credit after the rest of the year)

So who do you guys think should be in and out ?

 

[goodNumber10]

Farrell, Care and Tuilagi are shoe ins for the world cup - nothing will dsiplace them now.

I think Mike Brown is likely to be the world Cup 15, and Yarde the left wing - they are probably as close to a couple of certainties as you'll find.

 

[Maverick1987]

Farrell, Care and Tuilagi are shoe ins for the world cup - nothing will dsiplace them now.

I think Mike Brown is likely to be the world Cup 15, and Yarde the left wing - they are probably as close to a couple of certainties as you'll find.

Care was poor in NZ too

Like you say probably be in . Has enough credit in the bank too .

Christian Wade anyone ?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

From a biased point of view but if Youngs carries on from his last half of the tour against NZ I don't think Care spot will be a shoe in.

Burns played well in NZ but he isn't a guarantee starter next season for tigers with young Williams playing very well, although Burns will hav had played all preseason due to Williams ban.

TBH Faz, Tuilagi and brown for me are shoe in for the starting line up so far.

Wade is running out of time imo.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hard to say, with Wade, as he's injured every time he gets a chance. He really really needs to get/stay fit throughout the whole of the AIs and 6N to be in with any chance.

For me, going into the AIs:
9. Care
10. Farrell
11. May
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tuilagi
14. Yarde
15. Brown

21. Youngs
22. Cipriani
23. Eastmond/Foden/Nowell/Watson

Yarde played both 11 and 14 on the tour down under - not sure which his favoured side is/whether he switched to accommodate Ashton or May.
Harsh on Burrell, perhaps, but I think if 36 and Tuilagi are given a few games together they could really tear it up.
We're really well stocked for utility backs for the 23.
I'd really like to see Nowell and Wade tried on the wings together, too, at some point. I'm hoping that Nowell's injury hasn't pushed him out of Lancaster's thoughts too much. Also want to see Wade and Daly get game time if possible.

Scrumhalf is still a problem position - they're all too flakey. Hoping that Care's drop in form was, like Brown's, due to a long, hard, season, and not just being generally poor.

 

[j'nuh]

I feel a little defeatist about it tbh. Whatever we put out, it won't quite be good enough. 9-15 are all problem positions. Care is inconsistent. Youngs regularly turns to ****. Farrell is limited. Burns has gone backwards. May has talent but can be prone to making a poor decision. Yarde has promise but it has not materialised on the international stage. Twelvetrees keeps making silly mistakes. Barritt and Tuilagi have niche skills and not the all-round game to be a star. Burrell is only slightly better at these other skills, still not anything worth being excited about. Don't get me started on Ashton. Brown is the only player to have shown some real quality in the last 12 months imo, and yet after this summer and having watched Ben Smith, Le Roux and Folau, I find myself underwhelmed by him, even at his best. Foden is way past his best and Goode is not worth thinking about.

So to be honest, I am completely open about who plays in the backline come the World Cup. I wouldn't mind the likes of Robson, Hill, Daly, Watson etc. jumping to the front of the queue, even with limited game time.

Our back line isn't going to win us many matches. I think it's one of the weakest of the Tier One backlines. But they can play tight enough for the forwards to do their work.

 

[Big Ewis]

tsk, such English arrogance...pfff.....seriously, guys, wouldn't you just like to have your own part of the forum called "England and all things English" along with 'International Test Matches' and 'General Rugby Union' ?? pffff, seriously...I feel so arrogantated right now...

Oh and uhm, since I'm here, but still like I said, with frowning eyebrows, I'd go, and for whatever it's worth from an outsider who doesn't watch Prem a lot but does pay attention during tests:
9. Care
10. Farrell
11. Yarde
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tuilagi
14. Wade
15. Brown

23. Burrell

Tuilagi no matter what ppl say is a starter, along with Brown and Yarde brings them a real threat at the wing. I'm going with Wade with little knowledge, but from all the other wingers I've seen from England, he seemed to be the one that brought a dimension of his own rather than just filling in at 14. Care is punchy, a ball of nerve and can be very accurate when he's feeling it, and while Burns showed quality last June and Cipriani had some arguments himself on the pitch, I'm a Farrell fan and he brings defense and other things and seems the most stable option. He's really a good kid. Twelvetrees I know has the passing in him, he just never seems to be as good in white as he is for his club (I've seen a bit of him) but England should just trust he'll pull it out eventually and he's a big strong guy anyways and today you need that at midfield. Eastmond's good and brings excitement and quickness, but alas yes his small stature accounts for something and he may be a bit too risky despite what he brings. Burrell to add more power fresh off the bench at midfield since the back three should be doing fine, and he's a work in progress with good hands, good positioning and one willing to play running/improv Rugby, a big specimen and still young.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

9.) Care
10.) Ford
11.) Watson
12.) Twelvetrees
13.) Tuilagi
14.) Yarde
15.) Brown

21.) Simpson
22.) Farrell
23.) Daly

 

[Geordie]

Yarde is nailed on in my eyes...cracking player.
It will also be interesting to see how Wade comes back this season...he's a game breaker the likes of which i dont think we have in the England squad.

Also...where are all our big wingers? Players with big size and pace?

One of the biggest for me is Twelvetrees. He has ALOT to prove for me this season. That 12 spot is WIDE open...even a cracking season by Baths Devoto could see him looked at.
Eastmond, Burrell, Barritt, Devoto, Allen, Twelvetrees....lots of young players someone needs to nail that spot.

 

[TheSaffycen]

9.Care
10.Farrell
11.Yarde
12.Twelvetrees/Barritt
13.Tuilagi
14.Watson/Daly/Foden
15.Brown

 

[goodNumber10]

thanks for telling us something we already know kyran:

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/feat...our-half-backs-its-our-centres-that-worry-me/

 

[Geordie]

The backline is interesting.

In todays international rugby when goliaths like North, Nadolo etc are becoming more and more common, we seem to have a lack of them.

Just a though...would this backline be too small?

9 Care
10 Farrell
11 Yarde
12 Eastmond
13 Tuilagi
14 Wade
15 Brown

Of course 12 is anyones guess...so could replace Eastmond with Burrell or Twevletrees.

 

[Peat]

I am probably repeating what has been said but...

Our 9s are all flaky
Our 10s are all flawed
Our 12 stocks are shaky
Our wingers are raw

Pretty much everything is form dependent to the point that I feel that trying to nail down a backline this far in advance is a fool's game.

 

[j'nuh]

Yeah, you basically repeated what I said in half the words.

It's a funny thing... is a culture shift needed in England (and perhaps the NH in general) in order to produce better backs?

A shift to Summer rugby (promotes handling skills)? More touch and sevens from a younger age (including enforced practice for age-grade rugby)? Shorter seasons to allow for a longer off-season, where more time can be put aside into coaching soft skills?

I feel that if the pack weren't as important as they are to union, that we'd still be regularly steamrollered by the SH.

 

[Maverick1987]

I am probably repeating what has been said but...

Our 9s are all flaky
Our 10s are all flawed
Our 12 stocks are shaky
Our wingers are raw

Pretty much everything is form dependent to the point that I feel that trying to nail down a backline this far in advance is a fool's game.

I think the 9s are shaky due to the outside half choice . I feel like Farrell makes it harder for them than say someone like Cipriani . Care probably feels like he has to be the creator because Farrell won't/can't do it . I'm wondering wether bringing Tuilagi in to 12 might do some damage outside a creator like cips ?

 

[Geordie]

Actually i think we are producing the backs...its just many of them are still fairly young and have been a bit inconsistant.

Ie We didnt expect Freddie Burns to have a melt down this season after the one before. Hopefully being at Tigers he will really come to the fore and overtake Farrell for that spot. Then you have Ford who has finally played a full season at 10. He'll be much stronger for it.
Farrells position has to be at risk now. I like alot of what he has to offer...but in some of the critical parts of a FH's armoury...he is lacking.

12 is the critical spot for me...as we just dont know who should be there.

All the rest of the spots we have young inexperienced players but ones who i feel are quality. Yarde is pretty much a nailed on i would say, Brown also...and playing at the same club will help their knowledge of each other...then you have Wade coming back, and a few others to have a look at.

Personally i think its time to retire Chris Ashton from international rugby.

 

[goodNumber10]

I think Farrell would have to break both his legs for his position to be at risk, as much as i like Burns and Ford I feel there is absolutely zero chance of either of them displacing Farrell as the 1st choice England number 10.

Burns, Ford and Cipriani are literally competing for splinters.

 

[Maverick1987]

I think Farrell would have to break both his legs for his position to be at risk, as much as i like Burns and Ford I feel there is absolutely zero chance of either of them displacing Farrell as the 1st choice England number 10.

Burns, Ford and Cipriani are literally competing for splinters.

I'm not sure about this . I feel like Farrell is the consistent one with the broad shoulders for such a young guy . Rarely as a bad game but rarely has a match winning game and is obviously limited in his skill set . The others are a bit inconsistent if you like but if Farrell has a bad season this year SL will have no choice but to replace him imo

 

[goodNumber10]

I know what you're saying but it'd be a massive fall from grace for Farrell to drop to the bench/out of the match day squad.

I don't get it when people say he doesn't win games. His kicking keeps us in touch with pretty much anyone and i think anyone who contributes 20 points to the winning of a match can be seen as winning a game.

So yeah he may not score a try from 50 metres out but not many people do. I know who i'd like to be taking a match winning kick. Also the other things he brings to the team - leadership in defence and so on i think these things are really undervalued when people look at ford making a break or burns passing game etc...

I think the thing for me is his average traits are very much outweighed by his strengths - just my opinion mind.

 

[Sam Owen]

The backline is interesting.

In todays international rugby when goliaths like North, Nadolo etc are becoming more and more common, we seem to have a lack of them.

Just a though...would this backline be too small?

9 Care
10 Farrell
11 Yarde
12 Eastmond
13 Tuilagi
14 Wade
15 Brown

Of course 12 is anyones guess...so could replace Eastmond with Burrell or Twevletrees.

Im not sure about the height of these guys but Twelvetrees looks tall and looked good against the ABs IMO.

That same backline but Twelvetrees in there.