England’s tour to Australia thread

[Duck a l'Orange]

I can't think of times I noticed him other than when he did the 2 handed face shove and the hair pulling incident. He is gaining a reputation as a guy who does completely pointless crap off the ball though and could be a liability if he doesn't sort it out, or at least becomes good enough to offset the occasional slap on the wrist. I don't seem him having the position secured at all if the younger locks put on a good show, he feels like a player simply filling in until someone better comes along. He has had better moments recently but still not really doing well enough IMO.

For whatever reason, decent tighthead locks are much harder to come by than loosehead locks in England.

Hill is a bit like Coka, in that he'd not be near the team if he wasn't a unit.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Anyone think we might end up with a Arundell Steward Freeman back three eventually? 2 solid runners in space with Arundell as the main attacking threat, all 3 are can play full back and good in the air. Can chop and change position for attack and defence because it think id rather see Arendall at 15 going forward to track the ball and Smith, with Steward back there as the solid defence under the high balls.

Freemans just unlucky not to have a shot as likely the most deserving of the wingers. Who i dont think did bad a FB vs the Baba's

What a find Steward is. Seems to have everything you want for a top tier international full back and he's only 21 as well!

 

[Rinkadink]

View attachment 14166

That'll learn I for relying on mobile browsers innum.

In which case I'm baffled as to why there is no citing at least.

 

[Scotty]

What a find Steward is. Seems to have everything you want for a top tier international full back and he's only 21 as well!

Then add in Arundell who is 19 and looks like the real deal(be it abit untested as it stands)

But if they also comes good then at 21 and 19 bost have least 2 world cups in them.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Well said.

A lot of people criticise Eddie Jones for 'chopping and changing' and then suggest chops and changes …

If there were obvious alternatives, there might be more of an argument to be had, but as I see it, the current suggestions of drafting in uncapped players who don't regularly play at 12 doesn't feel like a strong enough solution.

I'm not even sure that I'm ready to agree there's a problem with Smith/Farrell in the first place … it can and should get better with time. Canning it so soon for no clear gain would be odd.

A lot of people have also criticised Jones for giving favoured players unwarranted sinecures too…..

I've never been massively convinced by the 2 playmaker thing, especially not 10 and 12, although Ford / Faz did work for a while.

I just don't see Faz's point of difference now. His kicking has definitely slipped from Iceman to OK and he offers little running threat. His distribution can be OK at times but not consistently enough. Half the problem is that he's fundamentally a 10 being shoehorned in to an unnatural position.

We have Dingwall and Porter on tour. Let's give one / both some decent time, otherwise what's the point? TBH I've never really watched either too closely, how do they stack up against say Nick Tompkins?

For me it's not a case of bedding in Smith / Faz, I just think that excellent servant that Faz has been, his race is run. Jones will doubtless come to the same conclusion in a year's time….

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He doesn't seem to play that much for Bath so that's really saying something.

To be fair that's because of consistent injuries more than anything,

Coka should've been given the summer off for some R&R and then a full pre-season, think he'd have benefitted more from that than going 0-3 for England and the increased attention that comes from that

He's a very good winger but does rely on physical attributes as his point of difference, and when his form drops he doesn't have the extra strings to his bow to make up the difference

 

[Geordie]

For whatever reason, decent tighthead locks are much harder to come by than loosehead locks in England.

Hill is a bit like Coka, in that he'd not be near the team if he wasn't a unit.

Yeah i think once Chessum is really up and running , and once Hugh Tizzard has been "Sarried" you wont see Hill or Ewells again.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I have a HUGE issue with TMO's these days. I dont know what videos or replays they are watching but some of their decisions defy belief!!

It's nuts that top-level referees don't seem to understand what information is important to pass on to the man in the middle. Another reason that's I'm a fan of Wayne Barnes' clear style of communication - by demanding the information that he knows he needs in order to follow the relevant decision making framework.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yeah i think once Chessum is really up and running , and once Hugh Tizzard has been "Sarried" you wont see Hill or Ewells again.

I think what you meant to say was once the coach has changed we won't see Hill or Ewels again.

Chessum's exciting. Tizard's got promise but I'm not quite seeing all the hype yet - I seldom do for sub 2m locks.

 

[Geordie]

I think what you meant to say was once the coach has changed we won't see Hill or Ewels again.

Chessum's exciting. Tizard's got promise but I'm not quite seeing all the hype yet -I seldom do for sub 2m locks.

Tizzard just looks a solid lump who does the nitty gritty so well, very much like Kruis did. Has things to work on sure, but Sarries is a pretty good place to do that. Tizzard is reportedly 6'6 and 19st which was the same as Kruis.

Theres a few good kids coming through, who will be worth watching their development. Those two above, Chessum junior, and Alfie Bell (Wasps) for example, Chessum Jr, is about 6'9 and Bell 6'8.

For the moment though until the WC i reckon we're stuck with Ewells, HIll etc.

PS Itoje is under 2m...

 

[BrokenWing]

I have a HUGE issue with TMO's these days. I dont know what videos or replays they are watching but some of their decisions defy belief!!

I think a lot of the time they're trying to portray an united front and try to not contradict the referee.

Like they'll bring an incident to the refs attention and he'll go

"Right, what I seeing there is X,Y and Z"

And there then seems to be a pause as if the TMO is trying to put across that's not what he thinks. But he can't be seen to disagree with the ref.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

PS Itoje is under 2m...

For everyone else's sake please don't start me on that one…..I've mentioned it more than once on here!

If Tizard turns out to be as good as Kruis you'll hear no complaints from me. I guess what I haven't seen from him yet is the ability to really dominate the line out as peak Kruis could. That may come. FWIW Tizard's listed at 1.96 and Kruis at 1.98.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

PS Itoje is under 2m...

This is slightly mitigated by him being able to jump 6m straight up from a standing start, to be fair.

 

[HamJan]

I do agree that Smith should be the choice going forward for 10, point was Care and Farrell picked for their experience either side of him but didn't seem to work.
What do England fans think of Cokanasiga?
I just don't get it. You get one great run out of him then proceed to not see him many any impact with the ball and/or get beaten in defence a lot.

TBH Coka reminds me a little of when Alex Cuthbert arrived on the scene and he was lauded for his size, power and speed, but hasn't lived up to his early promise. He sometimes seems afraid to use his power in contact situations.

 

[Jaguares]

My starting XV for the weekend:

1 Angus Bell
2 Dave Porecki
3 Taniela Tupou (If he's available)
4 Matt Philip
5 Caderyn Neville
6 Rob Leota
7 Super Hooper
8 Rob Valetini
9 Nic White
10 Quade Cooper
11 Koroibete
12 Kerevi
13 Len Ikitau
14 Jordan Petaia
15 Andrew Kellaway

16 Folau Fainga'a
17 Scott Sio
18 James Slipper
19 Jed Holloway (If he's available)
20 Pete Samu
21 Tate McDermott
22 Noah Lolesio
23 Tom Wright

Australia by 15

 

[Bada-Bing!]

England stuck in identity crisis and slipping backwards under Eddie Jones | Robert Kitson

The Test series with Australia is not yet lost but a fightback might only mask the issues holding back Jones’ muddled side

www.theguardian.com

 

[Scotty]

My starting XV for the weekend:

1 Angus Bell
2 Dave Porecki
3 Taniela Tupou (If he's available)
4 Matt Philip
5 Caderyn Neville
6 Rob Leota
7 Super Hooper
8 Rob Valetini
9 Nic White
10 Quade Cooper
11 Koroibete
12 Kerevi
13 Len Ikitau
14 Jordan Petaia
15 Andrew Kellaway

16 Folau Fainga'a
17 Scott Sio
18 James Slipper
19 Jed Holloway (If he's available)
20 Pete Samu
21 Tate McDermott
22 Noah Lolesio
23 Tom Wright

Australia by 15

Ok ill play, My England XV for the second test

Genge
George
Stuart
Itoje
Hill
Lawes
Willis
Billy
Care
Smith
Arundell (Hype train!)
Faz
Marchant
Freeman
Steward

LCD
Mako
Hayes
Chessum
Ludlam
JVP
Porter(maybe?)
Big Joe/Nowell(which ever)


My back 3 wont happen and maybe 1 of Freeman or Arundell should be at 23 but both deserve to be in the 23 over Big Joe or Nowell, argument to bench Hill and start Chessum after last weeks antics to show its not ok

My earlier 2 posts i said why id like Willis in and that back 3 but otherwise i wouldnt change too much

 

[spartan32]

Ok ill play, My England XV for the second test

Genge
George
Stuart
Itoje
Hill
Lawes
Willis
Billy
Care
Smith
Arundell (Hype train!)
Faz
Marchant
Freeman
Steward

LCD
Mako
Hayes
Chessum
Ludlam
JVP
Porter(maybe?)
Big Joe/Nowell(which ever)


My back 3 wont happen and maybe 1 of Freeman or Arundell should be at 23 but both deserve to be in the 23 over Big Joe or Nowell, argument to bench Hill and start Chessum after last weeks antics to show its not ok

My earlier 2 posts i said why id like Willis in and that back 3 but otherwise i wouldnt change too much

That back 3 is never happening. I think Nowell had a good game. Solid, beat defenders, good D, nothing to complain about. But with May now for again things are tricky. Coks hardly had the ball tossed his way all game, so he had little chance to do much. I'd like to see him given another decent run, maybe with May this time to add some pace, and then have Arundel on the bench and brought on much earlier so he gets a proper crack at things. Steward obviously starts whatever happens.

EJs already made clear he's sticking with Fas Smith axis, which is never getting any better, and is frankly a waste of time. Faz just shouldn't have been brought back after his injury. The worlds moved on. He's not needed at 10, or as a captain, and he's certainly not a centre. He's not even the kicker he used to be.

England can win the next test, but I fear EJ will conspire to hamstring the team with poor selections.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

What are the inside centre options in the current squad, really?

 

[Grizwald]

Don't think any individual player was to blame at the weekend, get the impression something behind the scenes is up, individually there's some great talent but some real basic school boy errors, for whatever reason it's just not working and hasn't for a while, and that's up to EJ to sort. (Personally don't think he can and England will sleep walk into the WC). The last 20 mins is the worst I've seen England play for a long time, falling off tackles, not getting back into the defensive line. Aus pushed us off our own scrum with 7 men FFS.

I heard a stat on the amount of recent games where England have lost the final quarter of loads of games. Joe Cokanasiga seems to have been signalled out, thought he worked hard on kick chases etc but didn't get any ball.

I thought the English forwards were universally poor at the weekend. Due to issues with the ruck it was either getting turned over or Danny Care was constantly have to dig it out killing any chance for quick ball.

I've come to expect high standards from Lawes and Itoje, I thought they were pretty anonymous. Genge did some hard carrying, Jamie George another consistent player was also off IMO and Stuart I'm not convinced is an international standard prop. Hill just seems to be a big **** house, I'd prefer to see Ollie Chessum start.

Farrell seems to be the best 12 we have available on tour and debatably available across English rugby that's fit . I think the Ford/Farrell axis worked well as they'd came through the youth ranks together and knew each others games inside out. In Smith/Farrell you've a young lad who plays a certain way for his club and well established Farrell who arguably has too big an influence on the wider England set up. Some of the basic skills were poor, few wayward passes from Smith (who didn't look himself) I couldn't tell what the attacking shape they were going for. It's only their second game together, I just can't see any other option EJ guilty of hoping MT is fit an available for too long. I really rate both Marchant and Steward, I think we miss another pair of hands in the back line at 13 or 15.

Really deflating time to be an England supporter. The Aussie backrow had a field day so I'd bring Willis in for Curry, I think LCD offers more impact from the bench than if he started over George. Chessum over Hill. Mostly eveyone just needs a rocket.....