• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

English/Welsh league

Peat

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
10,086
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Ulster

Not interested do not want. I either want an English competition promoting the best interests of the English game or I want a BI competition. The clubs should be told to sit down and shut up.
 

Tony Manx

TRF Season Ticket Holder
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
8,545
Club or Nation

Biarritz

I don't see why a successful and financially viable bona fide club competition based in England.............

Is it? I do not believe more than a couple of clubs are profitable so how do you measure financial viability?
 

Maverick1987

First XV
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
2,674
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Leicester

Is it? I do not believe more than a couple of clubs are profitable so how do you measure financial viability?

Exactly the RFU seem to make a lot of money but do the clubs ? From the outside it looks like a no
 

Largejanner

Academy Player
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
105
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Exeter

Is it? I do not believe more than a couple of clubs are profitable so how do you measure financial viability?

A £152m four year TV deal with BT and no doubt SKY willing to bust the bank to win the competition back in a couple of years perhaps?
 

Maverick1987

First XV
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
2,674
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Leicester

A £152m four year TV deal with BT and no doubt SKY willing to bust the bank to win the competition back in a couple of years perhaps?

Nah sky won't bust the bank to get it back it's not big enough worldwide . Seems they are leaning more towards American sports now tbh
 

Largejanner

Academy Player
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
105
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Exeter

Nah sky won't bust the bank to get it back it's not big enough worldwide . Seems they are leaning more towards American sports now tbh

Really?
Your perceptions are just as valid as mine but SKY over the years have based their entire business plan on showing home grown sport to a home audience, so I don`t see how your point is relevant in this case.
I sensed at the time that the loss of Premiership rugby was a huge blow to them and on the flip side I sensed also that BT Sport saw it as a vital part of their launch that they offer top class English club rugby.
Two subscription sports channels scrambling over each other for the TV rights to show English club rugby is a good sign in my view.
 

Maverick1987

First XV
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
2,674
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Leicester

Really?
Your perceptions are just as valid as mine but SKY over the years have based their entire business plan on showing home grown sport to a home audience, so I don`t see how your point is relevant in this case.
I sensed at the time that the loss of Premiership rugby was a huge blow to them and on the flip side I sensed also that BT Sport saw it as a vital part of their launch that they offer top class English club rugby.
Two subscription sports channels scrambling over each other for the TV rights to show English club rugby is a good sign in my view.

I might be wrong but my view was sky didn't fight all that hard to keep it . However they have in the last year secured NBA and NFL . That's just the perception I got
 

snoopy snoopy dog dog

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
4,663
Club or Nation

Leinster

People saying what draw will the Welsh bring ... Some forget that some of the oldest rivalries for clubs in England have been against Welsh sides. Regardless of what some believe here, Welsh regions would enhance the Aviva Premiership make no bones about that.
Ospreys have no history. Dragons are another amalgamated side (Ebbw Vale and Newport unless I'm mistaken) so there's no rivalry there. Only Scarlets and Cardiff Blues remain from the old days. Do English fans who have only gotten into rugby since the game went professional (being honest, that's most people) really care about adding these teams to the Premiership? I think not. From a Welsh point of view it makes sense but I still don't know what the Welsh regions have to offer the Premiership. We can point to the Ospreys adding value through their Celtic League/Pro 12 successes but in reality that league isn't rated in England.
 

TRF_Cymro

Cymro The White
TRF Legend
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
13,973
Country Flag

Wales

Club or Nation

Barbarians

Ospreys have no history. Dragons are another amalgamated side (Ebbw Vale and Newport unless I'm mistaken) so there's no rivalry there. Only Scarlets and Cardiff Blues remain from the old days. Do English fans who have only gotten into rugby since the game went professional (being honest, that's most people) really care about adding these teams to the Premiership? I think not. From a Welsh point of view it makes sense but I still don't know what the Welsh regions have to offer the Premiership. We can point to the Ospreys adding value through their Celtic League/Pro 12 successes but in reality that league isn't rated in England.

There are links there I'm sorry, news coming from the clubs in England say the same. They would welcome the Welsh regions. I'm sick and tired of the Pro 12 and the mediocrity that has become of it and that's precisely the point why Welsh regions are moving. If the Avia is willing to take the regions good on them. Will add something to the league.
 

Maverick1987

First XV
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
2,674
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Leicester

Ospreys have no history. Dragons are another amalgamated side (Ebbw Vale and Newport unless I'm mistaken) so there's no rivalry there. Only Scarlets and Cardiff Blues remain from the old days. Do English fans who have only gotten into rugby since the game went professional (being honest, that's most people) really care about adding these teams to the Premiership? I think not. From a Welsh point of view it makes sense but I still don't know what the Welsh regions have to offer the Premiership. We can point to the Ospreys adding value through their Celtic League/Pro 12 successes but in reality that league isn't rated in England.

It's ok we will play against the welsh wether you think they have history or not . I for one would love it if they came in to add a little extra spice and a couple more Leicester vs ospreys games each year ;) the Irish can stay in your crap league with zebre or whatever they will be called next year :p
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,008,185
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

I think the rivalry would come more from it being England (clubs) vs Wales (regions) rather than it being, say, Gloucester vs Newport etc.
Do think it'd garner decent interest though, if only as it'd freshen things up a bit - when teams get promoted they usually get a few more away fans travelling to them as it's a novelty to go to a new ground/see a new team - think this would happen with the Regions too.
 

Tony Manx

TRF Season Ticket Holder
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
8,545
Club or Nation

Biarritz

I might be wrong but my view was sky didn't fight all that hard to keep it . However they have in the last year secured NBA and NFL . That's just the perception I got

I think that Sky f...... up and went into the tender process with their eyes wide shut............do not forget that their market is worldwide as they screen premiership rugby in different countries in the same way as they screen SA and NZ club ruby in the UK.

Whether they will come back in x years time with a realistic counter offer will depend largely upon just how many broadband and sports subscribers they lose as a result of the loss to BT.

The money that BT have offered (152 million) needs to be broken down between that for the EPL and for the European competition that is not proceeding and then the annual amount per club to ascertain what kind of increase it means for the financial controllers of the clubs concerned..............there is no doubt it will make a bigger contribution but will it turn that many clubs into profit........I do not know the answer to that!
 

Peat

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
10,086
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Ulster

I might be wrong but my view was sky didn't fight all that hard to keep it . However they have in the last year secured NBA and NFL . That's just the perception I got

What I saw elsewhere is that Sky took one look at the BT offer and said "Bye". I suspect BT have hugely overspent to remove what they saw a vital part of Sky's strategy. I suspect that Sky are less than pleased with the Premiership, which it has promoted heavily. Never say never, but I doubt they'll be fighting hard to get it back.

There are links there I'm sorry, news coming from the clubs in England say the same. They would welcome the Welsh regions. I'm sick and tired of the Pro 12 and the mediocrity that has become of it and that's precisely the point why Welsh regions are moving. If the Avia is willing to take the regions good on them. Will add something to the league.

Which clubs? Because if its Wray's big mouth, hmm. I daresay there are plenty of clubs that would welcome the Welsh, but are they making the noise?
 

SuperEagle

Academy Player
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
102
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Leicester

I don't like this idea at all.

What English rugby needs to do is expand it's base of clubs. I want to see more English clubs from a wider geographical area be successful (a la Exeter). I want to see some more northern clubs being more successful and expand the game from it's London/midlands base.

Adding Welsh clubs would be a massive barrier to the development of clubs like Leeds, Pirates, Rotherham etc.. ESPECIALLY if the welsh clubs are exempt from relegation.

No, let the welsh regions stay in Wales.
 

Tallshort

International
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 15, 2011
Messages
6,223
Country Flag

Yugoslavia

Club or Nation

Nottingham

If the Welsh regions are happy to except relegation then I would welcome a Anglo-Welsh league. Always good to see the Osprays, Blue and most of all Scarlets play Tigers, lots of history there and I would look forward to it becoming a reality.
 

Le Frére Alpha

Fat Boi
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
15,535
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Leinster

I cant see it working because of the relegation issue. The Dragons would die as soon as they are relegated. That leaves the Welsh with three sides two of whom are prone to disaster years and could get relegated, which could leave two Welsh sides playing top flight rugby. They might continue to get fans for these two sides but years with only two to three sides playing top class rugby and not winning at that wouldn't do Welsh rugby any good.
 

Draggs

Hall of Fame
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
10,587
The Dragons who were second placed Welsh side for most of this season? We get steadier crowds than other regions, and have made huge strides over the last eight months. I think most Welsh clubs could hold their own at a minimum. Certainly every club is better than Warriors, and probably LI.
 

psychic duck

International
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,095
I think the rivalry would come more from it being England (clubs) vs Wales (regions) rather than it being, say, Gloucester vs Newport etc.
Do think it'd garner decent interest though, if only as it'd freshen things up a bit - when teams get promoted they usually get a few more away fans travelling to them as it's a novelty to go to a new ground/see a new team - think this would happen with the Regions too.

I don't buy snoopy's point that you have to have been in existence since the Victorian era to have a Calcutta Cup type rivalry that fans and players care about. Rivalries and intriguing matches can come out of modern times as well, just look at Clermont vs Leinster rivalry in the Heineken Cup built on some close epic encounters in recent times not based on the year that they were both founded. And in fact Ospreys and Leicester developed quite a rivalry other a few frequent meetings around 2005-2010 period, with bad feelings between them after Leicester tried to kick the Ospreys out the Heineken Cup for having a 16th man on the field for about 5 seconds and Henson's ridiculous ban before that. Also of course there could be something at stake in the games for a change which would make more fans care as well.
 
Last edited:

Le Frére Alpha

Fat Boi
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
15,535
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Leinster

I don't think you can use league places as an argument for whether they'd be good enough because that would completely defeat the purpose of the Welsh sides joining a "superior" league because that would mean that the Welsh shouldn't move league as they are performing averagely in the "inferior" pro 12. Based on players I don't think they would survive is what I'm trying to say.
 

Latest posts

Top