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English/Welsh league

Maverick1987

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So on the front page of the rugby paper it says welsh regions are keen on joining the aviva .

How do people feel about this and how should it be implemented ?
 

Draggs

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I would like it. I do wonder about the execution, it's hardly fair for the four regions to sign up and say put us in the first league, forcing either a) expansion and changing the season; or b) relegation of some teams.

The balanced solution would be to add two teams to the prem and two to the championship. A 14 team tournament is very viable, as shown in the Top14 and Super14. A sixteen team expansion could be done, but the season would be forced to start in August and run into early June. This could all be fixed, however, by scrapping the LV Cup. The English and Welsh clubs would have their matches all season, and inclusion of Welsh clubs into the Aviva A league could be a possible 'replacement'.

Geographically this makes more sense for the Welsh, obviously, but wouldn't it be easier to a Bath fan to get to Newport/Cardiff than Newcastle? Furthermore, I feel that solely the top two welsh clubs joining would provide greater competition than say Worcester or LI. Dragons were in close competition to Bath during their amlin match earlier in the season at the Rec, and the Scarlets turned over Quins at the Stoop.

If the league did swell to 16, could double relegation, as in the Top14, be put in place?
 

TRF_Olyy

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I wouldn't be against it, it's just working out how to implement it properly, as it'd be a right kick in the minge for the RFU clubs.
I don't think expanding to 16 sides would work out - obviously you'd get rid of the LV= to accommodate, but then the length of the season would be massive (two weeks more than the Top 14, which goes on for ever).

You could have 14 sides, but then I doubt the Welsh regions would agree to two of them being in the RFU Championship or the Prem/Champ sides would agree to two relegations/no promotion to get them in that way.
 

Draggs

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What if some LV weekends were used? There are four league matches, and three in the finals.
Each team plays 30 matches in the league rather than 22, so eight new matches. You gain seven weeks from the LV leaving one extra week.

Ultimately, if this were to go ahead, there would have to be concessions on both sides.
 

Maverick1987

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I wonder if it would be possible to keep the lv cup but the clubs use the reserves for that ? Do the clubs have "reserve" teams as such or is it just one whole squad ?
 

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Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
It'd be a shame to lose the LV= though (though it would become even more pointless if Wales joined the Aviva) - it's a mickey mouse tournament until the latter stages with the cash/HEC place on the line, but it's useful to give young players a run out, considering how short the Aviva 'A' League is.
 

j'nuh

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I think the prospects of there being an Anglo-Welsh league is a direct result of the HC wrangling. The new league would probably be an alternative to European rugby, not as well as.

We would make up room and then some by having a 16-team league instead of the HC and LV. Season needs shortening anyway.

I really like the idea. Even more so than European rugby. It would be way more competitive. (The French have too much money, and the Irish have a lot of their wage bill paid by the IRFU, and those resources just suffocate the competition. An English/Welsh league would be competitive.)

EDIT: as for a reserve tournament, there is a really poorly resourced reserve tournament that runs during the first half of the season currently. I'd like to see that given a makeover into a cup competition, and for it to run midweek, forcing teams to pick second team players.
 
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Maverick1987

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I think the prospects of there being an Anglo-Welsh league is a direct result of the HC wrangling. The new league would probably be an alternative to European rugby, not as well as.

We would make up room and then some by having a 16-team league instead of the HC and LV. Season needs shortening anyway.

I really like the idea. Even more so than European rugby. It would be way more competitive. (The French have too much money, and the Irish have a lot of their wage bill paid by the IRFU, and those resources just suffocate the competition. An English/Welsh league would be competitive.)

EDIT: as for a reserve tournament, there is a really poorly resourced reserve tournament that runs during the first half of the season currently. I'd like to see that given a makeover into a cup competition, and for it to run midweek, forcing teams to pick second team players.

Then as usual it could also be used to bring players back from injury steadily . The lv cup has bought to light a lot of seriously good talent lately . Luke Wallace is the main one that springs to mind . For international reasons I'd like that to continue
 

TRF_Olyy

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EDIT: as for a reserve tournament, there is a really poorly resourced reserve tournament that runs during the first half of the season currently. I'd like to see that given a makeover into a cup competition, and for it to run midweek, forcing teams to pick second team players.

I really don't get why they don't just run the A League in conjunction with the Premiership.
So, say, Sale Sharks play Bath, then a few days later Sale Jets play Bath United etc.etc.etc. rather than this half arsed attempt they've got now.
 

Ospreylian

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I'd be concerned about whether or not the regions would be protected from relegation. Imo, they should only join if this was the case. I don't want Welsh rugby to suffer because, say, the Dragons and Blues end up playing in the English Championship
 

Maverick1987

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I'd be concerned about whether or not the regions would be protected from relegation. Imo, they should only join if this was the case. I don't want Welsh rugby to suffer because, say, the Dragons and Blues end up playing in the English Championship

They can't be protected from relegation really it's a risk they will have to take . Are Cardiff or the dragons worse than Worcester ? I'm not sure there is much in it
 

Draggs

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They can't be protected from relegation really it's a risk they will have to take . Are Cardiff or the dragons worse than Worcester ? I'm not sure there is much in it
Honestly, I'd back the Dragons to beat Warriors. Blues, probably, but who knows with Phil Davies.
 

Maverick1987

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Honestly, I'd back the Dragons to beat Warriors. Blues, probably, but who knows with Phil Davies.

Yeh your prob right in this years form although they have got some balls and can come up with the goods from time to time
 

snoopy snoopy dog dog

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I completely understand why the Welsh regions wish to join the Premiership. I'm not so sure how the English clubs benefit. Without wishing to be harsh, the regions aren't big draws and their market size is pretty small. The only way I can see the regions joining the Premiership is if they drag the Scottish districts and Irish provinces with them too in a B&I League while at the same time the Italian superclubs join the French system. The IRB won't allow one nation improve if it does untold damage to three others.
 

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Perhaps the threat of relegation would keep the end of the season interesting for the lowest Welsh team? It's a common complaint towards the Pro12 - the season loses it's spark too early for teams that aren't competing at the top of the league.

That said, it would be pretty easy to just ring-fence the Welsh regions. Run promotion/relegation between the English clubs. I doubt any Welsh region would be relegated just yet anyway.
 

Maverick1987

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Perhaps the threat of relegation would keep the end of the season interesting for the lowest Welsh team? It's a common complaint towards the Pro12 - the season loses it's spark too early for teams that aren't competing at the top of the league.

That said, it would be pretty easy to just ring-fence the Welsh regions. Run promotion/relegation between the English clubs. I doubt any Welsh region would be relegated just yet anyway.

Would it be fair if just for example Newcastle came second from bottom and dragons were bottom that Newcastle got relegated ? I don't think it is . It's all or nothing for me . Even if the welsh premier sides came in to the championship so they had a chance if promotion too
 

jonny24

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What would it do to the Pro 12 though? Could it go on with just 8 teams?
 

Largejanner

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Its a no from me, the Celts have made their collective 'regional model' bed and should be made to lie in it.
I don't see why a successful and financially viable bona fide club competition based in England should be sullied by the addition of regional teams from a foreign country.
 

TRF_Cymro

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Meh to you Mr Captain Anti-Welsh above ...

People saying what draw will the Welsh bring ... Some forget that some of the oldest rivalries for clubs in England have been against Welsh sides. Regardless of what some believe here, Welsh regions would enhance the Aviva Premiership make no bones about that.

Problem comes finding a solution with promotion and relegation.
 

ratsapprentice

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Getting rid of the Amlin poses a bigger issue than I think many assume it would.

The A league is currently used to field junior club players, returning injured players and most importantly: Academy players.

While the Amlin is a step up from that, having an A league run alongside the main competition would stretch club resources to the limit.
 

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