FAO: Sharks Supporters

[Banana Hammock]

I've been looking for somewhere with knowledgable enthusiasts (i.e. not kneejerk bandwagon surfers) to put forward a few questions regarding frustrations I have with the Sharks team as a whole. Hopefully something will come to light here.

1. Why persist with John Plumtree? Every week he produces at least one decision that's dubious at best, particularly when it comes to selections and player recruitment. He picks people out of position, recruits for filled positions and cancels contracts based on... well, I can only assume Rory Cockott slept with his wife or somethign similar. Surely it's time to send him back to greener NZ pastures and bring in some local talent? Apparently not, because Sharks supporters think the sun sets when he sits down.

2. John Smit. Why oh why do they insist on catering to Peter de Villiers' little whims? They, once again, being Plumtree I guess, but even so. Sharks supporters seem totally oblivious to the fact that the best hooker in the world warms their bench whilst a man who would battle to hold his place in the other S15 teams walks on water. He's not Jesus, but he is WAY past his prime. The only remotely good thing to come out of Smit playing at hooker is that him being selected for the Boks means we don't have to tolerate that destroyer-of-his-own-backline as captain, Victor Matfield.

3. Jannie du Plessis. He's crap. No really, he is. He couldn't scrum his way through a small pudding, yet he's worshipped by Sharks supporters at Kings Park.

4. Ryan Kankowski. The greatest show pony ever produced by South Africa. Hangs around other players' backsides like a damn hemorrhoid waiting for the offload and then goes prancing off downfield. Whenever he does that, Sharks supporters go absolutely apeshit, completely forgetting how completely and utterly worthless he is for the other 89m45s of the game. Oh and then they whinge that he should be starting for the Boks. Please. If you picked him to carry the kit bags, he'd hang around on the pavement waiting for someone to offload them to him.

5. Charl McLeod. Refer to #1 regarding Cockott. McLeod had a couple of good games in Cockott's absence and suddenly not only does he get a start for every match but Sharks supporters get behind him and start slating Cockott for no reason other than McLeod was playing well? Complete injustice. Hopefully he doesn't go as unappreciated at Joburg.

6. Bosman/Terblanche. Ha. Ha. Ha. No, seriously - do I actually need to go on? How can you select a midfield with both guys out of position? Everyone had to sit and listen to Sharks supporters go on and on and on and on about Terblanche being the best tactical (read: old and slow) fullback in the country but no-one bats an eyelid when Plumtree, in his (in)finite wisdom, buys a new fullback and plays Terblanche in, what, his third or fourth choice position? And to make matters worse, the backup for center is Adi Jacobs. Seriously, you could put together an entire standup comedy routine just from S15 match reports.

7. Odwa Ndungane. That's the best available wing in Natal? Come on, shell out a few bucks and get someone decent. Somehow he keeps getting overlooked by Sharks supporters when it's time to hand out criticism - that needs to change.


Now what's the common thread here?

Oh yes: Sharks supporters.

The same group of people who are now whinging like stuck pigs about having such a shocking midfield, yet refuse to acknowledge the fact that they booed the two best prospective centers in the entire country all the way to Europe. You remember Frans Steyn and Brad Barritt don't you? Of course you do. Oh I've no doubt there are all kinds of excuses behind it, but the truth is if they'd still been playing in SA, they would probably have surpassed Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie by now. The less said about poor Waylon Murray, the better.

And isn't it time to shut up about Terblanche already? He's old and he's slow. There's no getting around it. That's why he was never considered for the Boks, despite the en-masse whinge emanating from Durban. How about you guys allow someone new into the fold and NOT boo him into another province and team?

Almost to a man you guys are narrow-minded and short-sighted, seeing the world as a small little box the size of Kings Park. No team in this country has wasted as much talent as the Sharks and a frightening amount is due to fan pressure. Who the hell wants to play for a team where you swing from being completely adored to hated with no chance of forgiveness in the matter of a few minutes of game time?

This is why no-one likes Sharks supporters. Bad losers and worse winners.

 

[Amobokoboko]

A bit harsh to be honest. I followed/ follow the Sharks as Ezeqiuel convinced me they would light up this season. They brought soem good rugby but also had their lows. I'm actually hoping that the Cheetahs will win their last 3 games and make it to the play offs.

 

[JJR]

I've been looking for somewhere with knowledgable enthusiasts (i.e. not kneejerk bandwagon surfers) to put forward a few questions regarding frustrations I have with the Sharks team as a whole. Hopefully something will come to light here.

1. Why persist with John Plumtree? Every week he produces at least one decision that's dubious at best, particularly when it comes to selections and player recruitment. He picks people out of position, recruits for filled positions and cancels contracts based on... well, I can only assume Rory Cockott slept with his wife or somethign similar. Surely it's time to send him back to greener NZ pastures and bring in some local talent? Apparently not, because Sharks supporters think the sun sets when he sits down.

2. John Smit. Why oh why do they insist on catering to Peter de Villiers' little whims? They, once again, being Plumtree I guess, but even so. Sharks supporters seem totally oblivious to the fact that the best hooker in the world warms their bench whilst a man who would battle to hold his place in the other S15 teams walks on water. He's not Jesus, but he is WAY past his prime. The only remotely good thing to come out of Smit playing at hooker is that him being selected for the Boks means we don't have to tolerate that destroyer-of-his-own-backline as captain, Victor Matfield.

3. Jannie du Plessis. He's crap. No really, he is. He couldn't scrum his way through a small pudding, yet he's worshipped by Sharks supporters at Kings Park.

4. Ryan Kankowski. The greatest show pony ever produced by South Africa. Hangs around other players' backsides like a damn hemorrhoid waiting for the offload and then goes prancing off downfield. Whenever he does that, Sharks supporters go absolutely apeshit, completely forgetting how completely and utterly worthless he is for the other 89m45s of the game. Oh and then they whinge that he should be starting for the Boks. Please. If you picked him to carry the kit bags, he'd hang around on the pavement waiting for someone to offload them to him.

5. Charl McLeod. Refer to #1 regarding Cockott. McLeod had a couple of good games in Cockott's absence and suddenly not only does he get a start for every match but Sharks supporters get behind him and start slating Cockott for no reason other than McLeod was playing well? Complete injustice. Hopefully he doesn't go as unappreciated at Joburg.

6. Bosman/Terblanche. Ha. Ha. Ha. No, seriously - do I actually need to go on? How can you select a midfield with both guys out of position? Everyone had to sit and listen to Sharks supporters go on and on and on and on about Terblanche being the best tactical (read: old and slow) fullback in the country but no-one bats an eyelid when Plumtree, in his (in)finite wisdom, buys a new fullback and plays Terblanche in, what, his third or fourth choice position? And to make matters worse, the backup for center is Adi Jacobs. Seriously, you could put together an entire standup comedy routine just from S15 match reports.

7. Odwa Ndungane. That's the best available wing in Natal? Come on, shell out a few bucks and get someone decent. Somehow he keeps getting overlooked by Sharks supporters when it's time to hand out criticism - that needs to change.


Now what's the common thread here?

Oh yes: Sharks supporters.

The same group of people who are now whinging like stuck pigs about having such a shocking midfield, yet refuse to acknowledge the fact that they booed the two best prospective centers in the entire country all the way to Europe. You remember Frans Steyn and Brad Barritt don't you? Of course you do. Oh I've no doubt there are all kinds of excuses behind it, but the truth is if they'd still been playing in SA, they would probably have surpassed Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie by now. The less said about poor Waylon Murray, the better.

And isn't it time to shut up about Terblanche already? He's old and he's slow. There's no getting around it. That's why he was never considered for the Boks, despite the en-masse whinge emanating from Durban. How about you guys allow someone new into the fold and NOT boo him into another province and team?

Almost to a man you guys are narrow-minded and short-sighted, seeing the world as a small little box the size of Kings Park. No team in this country has wasted as much talent as the Sharks and a frightening amount is due to fan pressure. Who the hell wants to play for a team where you swing from being completely adored to hated with no chance of forgiveness in the matter of a few minutes of game time?

This is why no-one likes Sharks supporters. Bad losers and worse winners.

To get what you looking for i suggest you go to www.sharksworld.co.za ;
register there and ask away.
i am sick of discussing The Sharks problems for now...just looking forward to improved performances from the team starting this weekend...If Jacobs if Fit for this weekend i promise you a Bonus Point victory for The Sharks this weekend...you can hold me to that and hunt me down if i am wrong, LOL.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

A number of valid points. TBF though you could write up a list that long or even longer for most of the other SA teams. At least the Sharks managed the CC last year and the bulls the S14 title. We Stormers fans have had to endure below par performances and nearly-there performances for more than a decade now.

I totally agree with Plumtree playing guys out of position being a problem. It messes with their game and makes them utility players for the Boks rather than having a go at nailing down a spot and developing. It started with Brent Russell, Pienaar and Steyn next. I was surprised when it started looking like Lambie wasn't going the same route TBH. It happened in the fornt row; Smit at prop which got picked up by PdV. Same happens in the backrow. This season the makeshift 'center' pairing. I think that is the root of the evils in Sharks country and one would have to lay the blame at Plumtree's feet not the fan's IMO.
Also never been a fan of Kanko not that I think Spies is much better.

 

[Draggs]

To be honest, I (and other Sharks fans here) have brought up those points before, take a look through the Sharks thread.
1. Plumtree is picking the same failures every match. We lose, no surprise.
2. Smit is past his time. No doubt he is a legend, but his not the best hooker in SA (or the Sharks) and not even the best choice for captain. Bad choice by de Villiers (again).
3. Jannie du Plessis is not bad, but like Mtawarira, not what everyone thinks.
4. Disagree about Kankowski. I wouldn't call him a showpony at all. He works very well with Daniel and Deysel in the backrow, who provide plenty of physicality. Not my choice for Springbok eight, however. I do think Daniel has looked pretty good at eight, and would player him there over Alberts in some matches.
5. Don't even say McLeod.
6. Our own fault for messing Steyn around and losing a class centre. Terblanche is old and Bosman is poor. Simple as that. Jacobs is a decent centre, but only at outside centre. Looking forward to Joubert joining.
7. I prefer Mvovo. Wouldn't mint Russell back (if he would want to play wing...)

The Sharks have an unfortunate history of messing around skilled players and shifting them throughout the backline (Russell: 10, 11/14, 15; Steyn: 10, 12, 15; Pienaar: 9, 10), no wonder they want to leave. When Lambie emerged last year and was playing fullback, centre and outside half, I thought there goes another one. Hopefully they have learned this time.

You are right, something has to change. Is Plumtree right for the job? I don't know. Hopefully with their backs against the wall over the next few weeks to make the playoffs, he will change his selections, but somehow I doubt it.

 

[Please-Buy-Baywatch]

Natal is where loose forwards go to die.

Please give me the name of one loose forward from Natal who we could classify as a great Springbok? And no, Mark Andrews does not count.

Im ****** off at the damage Sharks rugby has done to SA rugby over the last few years with their provincialism. Buy players in droves, coach them into the ground if you dont play them out of position, then send them packing overseas only to raid either the Lions or Cheetahs again in the next season.

The thought of Barrit playing for England makes me feel sick sometimes.

 

[Banana Surfer]

There is a lot of texts. I can answer them by this:

SHHAAAAAAAAAAAAARKS

 

[ingwe]

a friend showed me another topic here about our historical disadvantages, but i am so glad to see fellow SHARKS supportas representing. how do i get the shark picture on the left tho? is it my profile picture? i dont wanna trade beast for shark. i want both!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

a friend showed me another topic here about our historical disadvantages, but i am so glad to see fellow SHARKS supportas representing. how do i get the shark picture on the left tho? is it my profile picture? i dont wanna trade beast for shark. i want both!

Click "Settings" in the top right of the screen, then click on "Edit Profile" on the right, then scroll down and where it says "Club/Nation" select "Sharks"

 

[ingwe]

ah hah! thanks man!

 

[JJR]

Natal is where loose forwards go to die.

Please give me the name of one loose forward from Natal who we could classify as a great Springbok? And no, Mark Andrews does not count.

Im ****** off at the damage Sharks rugby has done to SA rugby over the last few years with their provincialism. Buy players in droves, coach them into the ground if you dont play them out of position, then send them packing overseas only to raid either the Lions or Cheetahs again in the next season.

The thought of Barrit playing for England makes me feel sick sometimes.

Deysel was playing Club rugby and discarded by The Lions and Sharks gave him a chance and he has become a great Blindside Flank in SA Rugby. Alberts was standing still at The Lions; as soon as he joined The Sharks his performances improved a Sh*t Load and became a Bok within no time. Sharks rarely kill a players Career, most of the time The Sharks sign non- Boks and usually within a season or two they become Boks. Sharks are great at getting the Full potential out of Individuals. Your comment don't have much Justification behind it..."Natal is where loose forwards go to die." The total opposite if you look at The facts and in my opinion that is a BullSh*t comment. No Disrespect though...just saying my mind.

 

[Please-Buy-Baywatch]

Deysel was playing Club rugby and discarded by The Lions and Sharks gave him a chance and he has become a great Blindside Flank in SA Rugby. Alberts was standing still at The Lions; as soon as he joined The Sharks his performances improved a Sh*t Load and became a Bok within no time. Sharks rarely kill a players Career, most of the time The Sharks sign non- Boks and usually within a season or two they become Boks. Sharks are great at getting the Full potential out of Individuals. Your comment don't have much Justification behind it..."Natal is where loose forwards go to die." The total opposite if you look at The facts and in my opinion that is a BullSh*t comment. No Disrespect though...just saying my mind.

Lol

You cant be serious.

Alberts was with the Lions for ages, and half a season in a Sharks jumper is not an indication of Shark POWAH. Alberts is an import, and suggestions that half a season in a Sharks jumper saw a revolution in his game is the kind of conclusion only a biased sharks supporter could come to

Deysel? If Deysel were playing his rugby at any other union, he would actually be progressing. He has stood still over the last two seasons, just like all loose forwards do when they go to Natal. Just like most players do as you eek out one currie cup win a decade and play week to week with no plans for the players.

The Sharks sign ANYONE who was on form the previous season. Look how they tried to poach Brussouw and Mapoe after a solid season at the Cheetahs. Every season they raid the other unions for players as they throw what they have to the wolves. The Lions alone have lost players into the double digits to the Sharks in the last 5 years, of which only the latest 3 are still playing. There were recent attempts on Doppies!

When I think of the talent that has been wasted at that union, the players which have been ripped from other unions only to be coached into the ground and then dropped, I feel sick. Sharks supporters managed to boo Frans Steyn all the way to France, they ignored Brad Barrit all the way to England and they "utilitied" Brent Russell into obscurity. I can go on here, but I would like to keep my breakfast down. Your provincialism costs South Africa dearly and you do no good for the Springboks. Every other union produces players, you import.

My point stands. Name one great loose forward that came from Natal. Just one please.

 

[Seaton]

He might not have been born here, but Gary Teichmann pretty much grew up and was educated in Natal.

How do you like them apples

 

[Please-Buy-Baywatch]

He might not have been born here, but Gary Teichmann pretty much grew up and was educated in Natal.

How do you like them apples

Good captain, but great loose forward? Only in Natal mate. Some of the payers we sidelined so we could continue to select him as a captain. A great captain, and a good loose forward who would never let you down, but great?

No, sorry. We selected a few loose forwards because they were good captains but not the best in their position. Pienaar, Teichman, Vos, Krige. We do it now with Smith.

Hell, lets make this easier. Please pick one great loose forward who either came from Natal or went to Natal and ended up a Bok. You can even include all the imports.

 

[JJR]

Well you probably the only one that thinks like that...you must be a Lions supporter or something; even Owen Nkumane admits how Deysel and Alberts have become Bok Contenders since Joining The Sharks.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Lol

You cant be serious.

Alberts was with the Lions for ages, and half a season in a Sharks jumper is not an indication of Shark POWAH. Alberts is an import, and suggestions that half a season in a Sharks jumper saw a revolution in his game is the kind of conclusion only a biased sharks supporter could come to

Deysel? If Deysel were playing his rugby at any other union, he would actually be progressing. He has stood still over the last two seasons, just like all loose forwards do when they go to Natal. Just like most players do as you eek out one currie cup win a decade and play week to week with no plans for the players.

The Sharks sign ANYONE who was on form the previous season. Look how they tried to poach Brussouw and Mapoe after a solid season at the Cheetahs. Every season they raid the other unions for players as they throw what they have to the wolves. The Lions alone have lost players into the double digits to the Sharks in the last 5 years, of which only the latest 3 are still playing. There were recent attempts on Doppies!

When I think of the talent that has been wasted at that union, the players which have been ripped from other unions only to be coached into the ground and then dropped, I feel sick. Sharks supporters managed to boo Frans Steyn all the way to France, they ignored Brad Barrit all the way to England and they "utilitied" Brent Russell into obscurity. I can go on here, but I would like to keep my breakfast down. Your provincialism costs South Africa dearly and you do no good for the Springboks. Every other union produces players, you import.

My point stands. Name one great loose forward that came from Natal. Just one please.

Hahahaha. Are you accusing the Sharks of poaching quality players away form other franchises? Last time I checked, the Stormers snatched Januarie, van Zyl, de Waal, van der Linde, Vermeulen, Jantjes and Fourie from the Lions/Cheetahs and the Bulls... Well, don't even get me started on the Bulls.

The Sharks have a team that is well-balanced and some players are more likely to perform on the coast in stead of the highveld. Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis are both from the Free State and Jannie even won a Currie Cup, but only with the Sharks he got selected regularly for the Boks.

About the loose forwards thing: Over the years I've seen a bunch of loose forwards come and go and with Deysel, Daniel, Kankowski and Alberts we have 4 players who are potential Boks. Add Botes to that and you have 5 flankers who are pretty decent. Brussow and Smith are the top flankers in the country together with the massively underrated Danie Rossouw, but the Sharks flankers are at least better than Dewald Potgieter and Deon Stegmann. Nobody knows why those 2 are even selected for the green jersey.

I have to agree with Draggs about the tossing around of players but bear in mind Plumtree has only been with us since 2009. Before that we had Dick (what's in a name?) Muir. He is the one abusing Russell, Pienaar and Steyn in the first place. Plum is making a big mistake with Alberts who should be called a lost forward in stead of a loose forward, but apart from that, I am happy with the position of players, just not the choice. for instance, Terblanche is best at an outside center, just not the best option for that position.

I am not happy with the recent results, but I do like our gameplan. I hate watching a team who wins matches based on 1 try and 9 penalties like they do up north

 

[Please-Buy-Baywatch]

Well you probably the only one that thinks like that...you must be a Lions supporter or something; even Owen Nkumane admits how Deysel and Alberts have become Bok Contenders since Joining The Sharks.

Owen Nkumane? Do you get your investment advice from Julius Malema too?

Deysels only first class rugby has been at the Sharks. Considering the attributes and ability the guy has, he has not lived up to expectations. As for Alberts, ONE SEASON at the Sharks has not made him a Springbok contender. You guys just never bothered to watch him play when he was at the Lions. HE WAS ALWAYS A CONTENDER. He has alway sbeen a good player, you were just too blinded with Kanko fever you never noticed him. You dont notice players unless they are in the black and white, its the Shark supporter mentality. There is life outside Kings Park bro.

Now please, care to name ANY players from Natal who went on to become great Springbok loose forwards? Any will do thanks. Even imports, considering how 80% of the side comprises of imports most of the time.

 

[TNT88]

The problem here is that even when they do come up with a decent bok forward from the Sharks. You will just say they aren't "great" enough.

The guys above have listed: Deysel, Daniel, Kankowski and Alberts

Your criticism of Deysel is that he simply doesn't impress you, that is invalid. Furthermore, you told them to list imports, and when they do list Alberts (who is having a good season), you tell them he doesn't count because in your opinion he was a contender at the Lions.... Why bother?

 

[Please-Buy-Baywatch]

Hahahaha. Are you accusing the Sharks of poaching quality players away form other franchises? Last time I checked, the Stormers snatched Januarie, van Zyl, de Waal, van der Linde, Vermeulen, Jantjes and Fourie from the Lions/Cheetahs and the Bulls... Well, don't even get me started on the Bulls.

The Sharks have a team that is well-balanced and some players are more likely to perform on the coast in stead of the highveld. Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis are both from the Free State and Jannie even won a Currie Cup, but only with the Sharks he got selected regularly for the Boks.

About the loose forwards thing: Over the years I've seen a bunch of loose forwards come and go and with Deysel, Daniel, Kankowski and Alberts we have 4 players who are potential Boks. Add Botes to that and you have 5 flankers who are pretty decent. Brussow and Smith are the top flankers in the country together with the massively underrated Danie Rossouw, but the Sharks flankers are at least better than Dewald Potgieter and Deon Stegmann. Nobody knows why those 2 are even selected for the green jersey.

I have to agree with Draggs about the tossing around of players but bear in mind Plumtree has only been with us since 2009. Before that we had Dick (what's in a name?) Muir. He is the one abusing Russell, Pienaar and Steyn in the first place. Plum is making a big mistake with Alberts who should be called a lost forward in stead of a loose forward, but apart from that, I am happy with the position of players, just not the choice. for instance, Terblanche is best at an outside center, just not the best option for that position.

I am not happy with the recent results, but I do like our gameplan. I hate watching a team who wins matches based on 1 try and 9 penalties like they do up north

So you agree then? Natal has not produced one great loose forward since readmission? Teichman is the only one who is even noteworthy. Natal is where loose forwards go to die. Thatrs what I said and it seems as if I am right.

As for the Sharks poaching players from the Lions and the Cheetahs?

Bismark
JDP
Alberts
Ludik
Mostert
Deysel
Kockett
Bosman
McLeod


Thats just in this squad. JUST THIS SQUAD. That does not include players you have sent packing, guys like Frans Steyn who you booed all the way to France. Barrit. Murray. BJ Botha. I dont even include people who were not born there, people like John Smit and Ross Skeate or Beast.

Even with the long history of player raids, YOU STILL CANNOT PRODUCE THE NAME OF ONE LOOSE FORWARD WHO HAS REPRESENTED THE SPRINGBOKS who is anything but average.

The Sharks are bad for South African rugby. You raid other unions, coach the players into the ground, and then go on another raid. How many Currie Cups have you won in the last 12 years? How many super trophies? Yes, you are there and there abouts, but you are there and there abouts at the expense of South African rugby.

 

[Please-Buy-Baywatch]

The problem here is that even when they do come up with a decent bok forward from the Sharks. You will just say they aren't "great" enough.

The guys above have listed: Deysel, Daniel, Kankowski and Alberts

Your criticism of Deysel is that he simply doesn't impress you, that is invalid. Furthermore, you told them to list imports, and when they do list Alberts (who is having a good season), you tell them he doesn't count because in your opinion he was a contender at the Lions.... Why bother?

Are you going to seriosly say that Deysel, Daniels, Alberts and Kanko, KANKO, are great loose forwards?

Let me explain something to you. Schalk Burger is a great loose forward. Richie McCaw, George Smith, Juan Smith, Andre Venter, Josh Kronfeld. These are great loose forwards. These are players that have stood out at an international level and are regarded by more than just their union supporters as great players.

Kanko is not a great loose forward outside the imagination of anyone but the average Sharks supporters head.