fastest player in the game

U

umosay

Guest
Originally posted by loratadine@Feb 21 2005, 11:14 AM
I think that nh have there fair share of fast players,as mentioned before robinson, and of course shane williams
joe rockoko said before the wales and new zealand match that he rates shane in the top five wingers in the world,he said he hates playing against him because he is the small and nippy type who has the ability to run rings around people.
Robinson may be quick over 10-40m but over 100 he aint very fast. Who can remember when Flatley burned him off over 100m in the Eng Aus game in 2002... hahahahha
 
G

Gay-Guy

Guest
Originally posted by umosay@Feb 21 2005, 11:13 AM
Robinson may be quick over 10-40m but over 100 he aint very fast. Who can remember when Flatley burned him off over 100m in the Eng Aus game in 2002... hahahahha
Or when Howlett outran him in the AB England game at Twickers. Robinson dived and missed by a couple of metres as they raced to the corner while Howlett was slowing down to turn and take the ball to the posts (what an insult!!). Afterwards Howlett said (when he received the ball at the halfway mark and it was one on one with Rob) "When I looked up and saw Jason, I always knew I had it on him" (No respect!!!)
 
R

richllew

Guest
Yeah but acceleration is much more important than top speed (i don't like Robinson though)
 
U

umosay

Guest
Wouldn't say that is entirely true. Jonah had pretty slow accel but his top speed was real fast for a big guy which is why he was so dangerous. Normally his step to the left and fend got him going
 
L

Los Lover

Guest
<<If you said something like that here in the US, you'd be crucified, no joke. They consider that stereotyping, and racist talk. (Not saying I disagree, just stating a fact).
>>

That's because the 'land of the free' is a misnoma and you are living in a virtual dictatorship.

If what I am saying is true I don't think it can be construed as racist - I don't live in fear of this as you obviously do.

I stated facts...

Can you point out to me where I was racist (I know you don't disagree but you state the average American would - I would need to know how this could possibly be construed from my comments). I think racism is about intention and attitude - mine is one of praise so I think anyone who thinks this is racist should lighten up.

The twitch fibres thing is scientific fact - any disputing this because of fear of racism is a continuation of America's state of perpetual fear of themselves, the outside world and their 'enemy' manifested in the insecurity of knowing fact from fiction.

For such a racist country, I am surprised my comments made a dent at all.....
didn't you guys disenfranchise blacks to get Bush into government in the previous elections? Mmmmmmm.
 
L

Los Lover

Guest
Sorry if that's a bit harsh....but really....

You made a comment that sounded as if your country was really sensitive to racist issues, while, racistly, you are bombing your way around the world. And don't say it's not me etc....Your country and your people are doing it and they represent YOU - the American citizen.

America has the most checkered and racist history, present and anticipated future of any country in the Western, hell perhaps the entire, world.

Your comment smacked of denial and rose-tinted specs while in other countries you are bombing kids and not feeling bad simply because of a vile and inherent form of racism and prejudice. Thus I will not stand for a suggestion that my piece would be construed as racist by a someone standing up for the virtual fourth reicht.....I mean please.

Sort out your own garden.....that is once you've accepted it needs some cleaning.
 
E

EVOL

Guest
Boltman<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Is that supposed to be the fastest? A friggin 4.53 40?

I hope not, because even fat outa' shape NFL O and D lineman can run mid 4.5's.

I'm thinking fastest, as in NFL comparable fastest. Like a 4.22 through a 4.4.[/b]
Hey buddy not saying hes the fastest in the world or anything but look.
40 METRES = 43. 7 YARDS its all about the metric system.
 
L

Los Lover

Guest
Yeah exactly.....

ALSO - are they being timed with that suit of armour on? I doubt it.
 
L

Los Lover

Guest
Sorry - for the yanks that's armor...

America must be the only country in the world that has changed the spelling of English to suit them selves phonetically and for their pronunciation.

A reflection of arrogance perhaps?

Month before the day like nowhere else.....9/11 anyone...

I could go on....but mum's the word - sorry mom.
 
C

captainamerica

Guest
Los Lover, what the . . . ?

Boltman says he agrees with you.

Then you go on a tirade -- even replying to yourself about comments you made.


Who are you even talking to?

Originally posted by Los Lover
Sort out your own garden.....that is once you've accepted it needs some cleaning.
What the hell?

First off, Bolts, I can see where some idiots would confuse that comment with being racist -- do you remember what Jimmy the Greek said years ago that got him fired? But, what Los Lover reiterated, about the muscle twitch fibers, I think that's more and more getting to be accepted as common knowledge -- and I'd like to think that even our average citizens (let alone the ones who carry the torch for every cause) would have the headspace to accept it.
 
G

Gay-Guy

Guest
Being born with a higher percentage of faster twitch muscles does not mean you are better..only faster. The downside of this is that you burn glucogen quicker. Those who are born with the slow response muscles can conserve and burn more efficiently. That is why people in rugby are mainly backs or forwards, with the rare exceptional ones as having the ability to cross over into the other ones areas of strength. For instance, sprinters will never win marathons and marathoners will never win the 100m at the Olympics. Those in between are the 3000m (or is it 5000) runners with depending of what percentage of muscle you were born with every other runner is in the events beside them (1500m, 10000m).

You are born with a muscle type and you play out your career in rugby depending on it. No big deal really...that is why rugby is such a good allround game for every body type. Soccer doesn't have this, or Basketball, or most other sports. Gridiron would have made it in the same league but you don't have to be good cardiovascularly in that game. In fact, aerobics might be detrimental to a defensive linemans power/weight factor.
 
B

Black|Raven

Guest
Originally posted by Los Lover@Feb 20 2005, 11:53 PM
- Howlett (Fijian)
- Caucaunibuca (Fijian)
- Rokocoko (Fijian)
- Sivivatu (Fijian)
- Delasau (Samoan)
- Muliaina (quicker than he looks - and Samoan)
- Russell (is quick for a whitey but still SH - admittedly his father is Samoan)
howlett's not fijian, delasau is not samoan.......about the fast twitch muscle:

if you eat alot of white meat when you're young you develop fast twitch muscles eg. fish
if you eat red meat you develop slow twitch muscle eg. steak
of course this should be accompanied by the specific training, yada yada yada.

in saying that it also depends on your DNA eg. if your dad is big jonah, guess who's going to running over people juss like his daddy


it doesn't matter where your from, believe me with enough training and will power even japan will someday win the world cup
 
T

THE CHIROPRACTOR101

Guest
Originally posted by Black|Raven@Feb 21 2005, 08:27 PM
even japan will someday win the world cup
ummmm yep....


white guys train harder than islanders...and i dont see them on the wings of the all blacks....hmmmm whatta bout olympic sprinting....every teams represented by a black guy....face it...cheeky darkers are naturally gifted physically...all these imports from the islanders dont exactly train hard out and dont hav these fancy equipment most kids get in clubs and schools...so how r they better...their speed one thing their strength the other...all natural gifts from god...u whiteys are blessed with discipline and brains...one of which u dont use as much...rite eh george dubya
 
C

C A Iversen

Guest
Originally posted by THE CHIROPRACTOR101+Feb 21 2005, 10:06 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE CHIROPRACTOR101 @ Feb 21 2005, 10:06 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-Black|Raven
@Feb 21 2005, 08:27 PM
even japan will someday win the world cup
ummmm yep....


white guys train harder than islanders...and i dont see them on the wings of the all blacks....hmmmm whatta bout olympic sprinting....every teams represented by a black guy....face it...cheeky darkers are naturally gifted physically...all these imports from the islanders dont exactly train hard out and dont hav these fancy equipment most kids get in clubs and schools...so how r they better...their speed one thing their strength the other...all natural gifts from god...u whiteys are blessed with discipline and brains...one of which u dont use as much...rite eh george dubya
[/b]
When you start saying what a white person or a black persons capabilities are, and putting limits on peoples abilities based on race, you are setting one races skills above anothers.
That is racism and should be either taken back now or reported.
Edit: I am not saying you are racist, just your view is NOT well put.
 
B

Boltman

Guest
Originally posted by captainamerica@Feb 21 2005, 02:27 PM
Los Lover, what the . . . ?

Boltman says he agrees with you.

Then you go on a tirade -- even replying to yourself about comments you made.


Who are you even talking to?

Originally posted by Los Lover
Sort out your own garden.....that is once you've accepted it needs some cleaning.
What the hell?

First off, Bolts, I can see where some idiots would confuse that comment with being racist -- do you remember what Jimmy the Greek said years ago that got him fired? But, what Los Lover reiterated, about the muscle twitch fibers, I think that's more and more getting to be accepted as common knowledge -- and I'd like to think that even our average citizens (let alone the ones who carry the torch for every cause) would have the headspace to accept it.
Exactly, I was in agreement with him. But at least in his tirade (to whom it was directed I dunno) he says how he really feels.



I remember the Jimmy the Greek thing like it wsa yesterday LOL.


In regards to the race issue, look, I never ever said I think it is, was just stating how people over here would construe that statement, no need to get your pantys all in a bunch.






A good article that often makes me think about these issues (old but relevant)......


American football, Samoan style
By Ted Miller
Special to ESPN.com

PAGO PAGO, American Samoa -- It's a sweltering afternoon. Shoulder pads are cracking. Coaches are howling. The familiar smell of mud, sweat and grass rises in a pungent steam from the ground.

Samoan football practice
Traditional Polynesian dances help to make Samoans nimble-footed.
The senses conclude: football practice.

It could be a scene from any football hotbed, from Odessa, Texas, to south Florida, where players dream of 80,000-seat stadiums and highlights on ESPN.

But if you want to find this cradle of football, you'll need a globe and a good eye, because Tutuila, the population center of America Samoa, is a 54-square-mile volcanic island in the South Pacific, more than 4,500 miles from the U.S. mainland and 2,300 miles south-southwest of Hawaii.

When this nearly four-hour practice is over, the athletes will wrap themselves in skirts -- more accurately, lava lavas, the traditional wraparound sarongs Samoan men wear -- and head back to their open-air homes, or fales, in beachside villages surrounded by tropical green hills.

From Junior Seau to Joe Salave'a to Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala, every Samoan playing in college or the NFL traces his roots back to this tiny island of roughly 65,000 people.

Samoans once were known as fierce warriors who practiced cannibalism. Now they take their aggressions out on the football field, and they do so with uncanny power and skill due to a potent brew of genetics and culture. Their bodies are naturally big-boned; traditional dances make them nimble; and a disciplined upbringing emphasizes the group over the individual, wiring them for team sports.

Writer Robert Louis Stevenson, Samoa's most famous expatriate, called Polynesians "God's best, at least God's sweetest work." He'd get no argument from college coaches from Honolulu, Hawaii, to Provo, Utah, to Bowling Green, Ky., whose eyes widen at the sight of those tongue-twisting, vowel-laden names.

There are approximately 500,000 Samoans in the world, only half of whom come in contact with American football. Yet more than 200 play Division I college ball.

Every Pac-10 team will have at least one Samoan player on its roster this season, most with two or more. Teams as diverse as Tennessee, Nebraska, BYU, Idaho, Louisiana Tech and Western Kentucky have Samoan players.

An estimated 28 Samoans will be on NFL rosters this year, at least six of whom were born or lived on The Rock.

Four Samoans were selected in the first four rounds of the NFL draft a month ago. Nebraska's Toniu Fonoti (second round, San Diego) and UNLV's Anton Palepoi (second round, Seattle) were both born in American Samoa.

It has been estimated that a Samoan boy is 40 times more likely to reach the NFL than a boy growing up in the United States.

"It's the sport we were born to play," said University of Washington defensive lineman Tui Alailefaleula, a native of American Samoa. "Football is the game where we can reach our goals and help our families."

'They thought we were Mexican'
The vast majority of Samoans playing in the college or professional ranks are first- or second-generation Americans from families that typically settled in Hawaii or on the West Coast. American Samoans are classified as U.S. nationals and easily can become citizens.

Samoan football
A Samoan football player is 40 times more likely to reach the NFL than a player from the states.
Yet an increasing number of college football programs are recruiting the island, plucking players from its six high school teams and placing them directly onto their squads or at junior colleges. This winter, Matt Toeaina, a running back out of Samoana High, signed with Oregon, where he'll join highly recruited, Robert Toeaina, his cousin from California. Defensive end Melila Purcell of Leone inked with Hawaii.

A year before, Western Kentucky head coach Jack Harbaugh liked what he saw on a tape of linebacker Kris Mau of Faga'itua. One of his assistants, Mike Fanoga, a native of American Samoa who migrated to the U.S. and played for UTEP, then made a trip to the island for a clinic.

"(Fanoga) called back about another player and before you knew it four of them were coming here," Harbaugh said.

Next year, two Leone players top a list of potential Division I-A recruits. Purcell's younger brother, Amani, is a 6-foot-3, 260-pound defensive end. Fano Tagovailoa is, according to one local coach, "the best quarterback we've seen in Samoa."

Schools like BYU, Arizona and Hawaii have scoped island talent for years. But other programs have started sending coaches to annual football clinics. This month, assistants from USC, Texas Tech, Nevada and Tennessee-Chattanooga will join Fanoga on the island.

A number of obstacles challenge coaches recruiting American Samoa, not the least of which is the expense and time required for the 15-hour airplane trip needed to get there.

Samoan prep athletes often struggle to meet NCAA academic standards. Most grow up in bilingual households, which makes the English portion of the SAT a struggle. This entices some families to seek an off-island education for their children, typically with relatives living in Hawaii or stateside.

“ Physically, we're there -- if you want a Samoan kid to hit somebody, he'll do it. But mentally, we've got to get there. I tell these kids that I don't care how good they are, if they can't pass the SAT, they aren't going anywhere. â€
— Suaese Taase, an assistant coach at Faga'itua High School in American Samoa who played at Louisiana Tech
"Physically, we're there -- if you want a Samoan kid to hit somebody, he'll do it," said Suaese Taase, an assistant coach at Faga'itua who played at Louisiana Tech. "But mentally, we've got to get there. I tell these kids that I don't care how good they are, if they can't pass the SAT, they aren't going anywhere."

Once a player arrives at a university, the change in lifestyle is dramatic.

"They've never been away from the islands -- it's like another planet," Fanoga said. "They don't tend to go to class at first because it's so relaxed on the island."

The food, culture and pace of life are strange. Mau had never seen snow before he arrived at Western Kentucky. He and his fellow Samoans were equally new to their classmates, particularly when they donned their lava lavas for campus strolls.

"It's the first time they've seen a Samoan," Mau said. "They don't even know where Samoa is. They thought we were Mexican."

Polynesian players tend to stick together, even though that often necessitates ignoring the ancient rivalry between Samoans and Tongans. Washington has four players from American Samoa, two from Tongan and another from Hawaii who pal around.

"They call us 'The Tribe,' " Alailefaleula said. "We play jokes and bag on the Tongans, but we hang out."

Fanoga is turning a recruiting eye toward the far more populous island of Western Samoa, an independent country known for producing the world's finest rugby players. One of the few Western Samoans playing college football is USC running back Malaefou MacKenzie.

"When I go home, they really don't know what football is," MacKenzie said. "But you don't understand the raw athletes they have over there. They're in better shape and more disciplined."

'America's Shame in the South Seas'
Football was barely a blip anywhere on the planet when the United States annexed most of what would become American Samoa in 1900.

Samoan football practice
Rugby is the American (Samoan) pastime, but football is seen as a way to riches.
That action started a trickle of migration to the U.S, where Samoans first discovered the sport. Al Lolotai of the Washington Redskins was the first Samoan in the NFL in 1945, followed by Charles Ane of the Detroit Lions in 1953. Bob Apisa was an All-American at Michigan State in the 1960s.

The U.S. had a naval base on the island until the 1950s, and many Samoan men joined the military as an alternative to the malodorous tuna canneries, the island's largest employer.

The steady flow of Samoans to the U.S., often through the armed forces, made a significant impact in college football in the 1970s, when Mosi Tatupu (USC) and Manu Tuiasosopo (UCLA), among others, made names for themselves. Three consecutive team MVPs at Washington State were Samoan: Jack "The Thowin' Samoan" Thompson, Samoa Samoa and Tali Ena.

But all those athletes grew up primarily in the U.S. Football didn't arrive in American Samoa until 1969, and only then because of a well-meaning but misguided act of cultural imperialism in the early 1960s. That's when an article in Reader's Digest, titled "America's Shame in the South Seas," concluded that the simple island lifestyle was actually abject poverty.

In response, President Kennedy led an aggressive and controversial effort to modernize the island. An airport, schools, a hotel, roads and homes were built. American-style business sprouted up.

Television arrived, beaming in pictures of American life and introducing football to the rugby-crazed Samoans.

"It (Samoan success in football) doesn't come as a surprise to my people," said Eni Falemavaega, the non-voting U.S. Congressman from American Samoa. "It's inherent in the Samoan character. We love contact sports. Our first love was rugby, but we like American football because it pays more."

As a result, the ancient customs and codes of conduct that govern Samoan life -- the fa'a Samoa or the "Samoan way" -- has added a tradition over the past 30 years: football.

'No, you can't come to practice in a lava lava'
Francis Tuitele, who played at Idaho State, is the Bear Bryant of high school coaches in American Samoa. Since he took over the Leone team in 1982, he's won 10 island championships. He retired after winning the 2002 championships with a 56-player team he calls his best. Along the way, 11 of his players have gone on to Division I teams and many others to smaller schools.

Samoan football practice
Coaches truly knowledgeable about football are few in American Samoa.
When he took over the program, though, he found 38 eager but far from polished players.

"They'd come to practice with one sock and no shoes," he said. "I'd say, 'No, you can't come to practice in a lava lava.' "

Because the island didn't have any youth leagues, the players knew almost nothing about the game, other than they would get to tackle each other.

Tuitele had to explain the most basic rules and fundamentals.

"All they thought was attack, attack. Tackle the quarterback. Attack the guy with the ball," he said.

Now the championship game is second only to Flag Day as an island celebration. Tafuna Veteran's Memorial Stadium is packed beyond capacity with spectators standing on cars or climbing trees to watch the action.

"It's so loud it's like the Super Bowl," Tuitele said.

The players' skills and knowledge have improved greatly over the years. While no youth leagues exist, elementary schools feature flag football. The high schools also have started junior varsity programs over the past two seasons.

“ You can see a passion in their eyes. Some youngsters in this country don't have a passion for football. (The Samoans) look at this as a tremendous opportunity. â€
— Western Kentucky football coach Jack Harbaugh
Samoans who have gone on to football glory often return home to help promote the sport. Joe Salave'a of the Tennessee Titans has started an annual football clinic on the island. Last year, he brought along teammate and NFL All-Pro, Jevon Kearse.

Nonetheless, providing equipment basic to prep teams on the mainland is difficult because of the expense. Uniforms are often mix-and-match. A weight room is a rare luxury.

One significant area of improvement is game tape, which is essential to attract the interest of college recruiters. Quality tapes were virtually non-existent until 1996, when the Samoa News, the local newspaper, ran a series of stories calling for the local television station to broadcast games.

An impressive game tape can catch a coach's interest. Few coaches who have recruited Samoan players don't go looking for another.

"You can see a passion in their eyes," Harbaugh said. "Some youngsters in this country don't have a passion for football. (The Samoans) look at this as a tremendous opportunity."

Ted Miller is a staff writer for the Seattle Post-Intelligencer
 
C

C A Iversen

Guest
Originally posted by Gay-Guy@Feb 21 2005, 04:33 PM
Being born with a higher percentage of faster twitch muscles does not mean you are better..only faster. The downside of this is that you burn glucogen quicker. Those who are born with the slow response muscles can conserve and burn more efficiently. That is why people in rugby are mainly backs or forwards, with the rare exceptional ones as having the ability to cross over into the other ones areas of strength. For instance, sprinters will never win marathons and marathoners will never win the 100m at the Olympics. Those in between are the 3000m (or is it 5000) runners with depending of what percentage of muscle you were born with every other runner is in the events beside them (1500m, 10000m).

You are born with a muscle type and you play out your career in rugby depending on it. No big deal really...that is why rugby is such a good allround game for every body type. Soccer doesn't have this, or Basketball, or most other sports. Gridiron would have made it in the same league but you don't have to be good cardiovascularly in that game. In fact, aerobics might be detrimental to a defensive linemans power/weight factor.
Now that is a great way to express the differences in human development without saying anything negative. Great stuff, Gay-Guy!!!
 
R

richllew

Guest
I still believe acceleration is more important than top speed (with the exception of some)
Don't you feel it is important to hit a gap
 
A

ALLBLACKS

Guest
howlett is tongan not fijian...and its btween howlett since he burned robinson so many times rokocoko,anesi,habana,chavanga,tho on allblacks.com sevens coach tiejens(dont kno how 2 spell it) sed sosene anesi spee training time in da 40m sprint was quicker than joe rokocokos time.rupeni is quick.the fastest guys in rugby have 2 b rupeni,howlett,rokocoko,anesi,habana,chuvanga.

guys like roger randell,ohata,robinson are quick but theyve got burned by some of the names ive mentioned above
 
A

ALLBLACKS

Guest
training helps but a study in university has proven that african ppl(not racist or nething) have a tighter calf musclke which does help with speed n leg muscle.

makes u think y african american or africans r always winning some of the fastest ppl in da world.

i dont kno how it works out 4 polynesians tho,cause polynesians r sum of the fastest guys in rugby.

but like sum 1 sed training helps 2
 
A

ALLBLACKS

Guest
Originally posted by Boltman+Feb 21 2005, 10:04 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boltman @ Feb 21 2005, 10:04 AM)</div>
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 08:40 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Hypnotised
@Feb 17 2005, 06:51 PM
A good race for 7  people would be

Sereli Bobo
Rupeni
Joe Rokocoko
Chavunga ( that black stormers guy who played a few games last year)
Howlett
Robinson
Ohata

Los: Bit harsh on robinson there I think, he's definately a good player. You're bias to SH Players is amazes even me as a NZ'er

Sosene Anesi would be in that race too, fastest ever time in NZ over 40m

http://www.rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/articles...l?oneclick=true
Yeah apparently the fastest guy in nz rugby is Sosene Anesi 4.53sec over 40m
Is that supposed to be the fastest? A friggin 4.53 40?

I hope not, because even fat outa' shape NFL O and D lineman can run mid 4.5's.

I'm thinking fastest, as in NFL comparable fastest. Like a 4.22 through a 4.4.





"Islanders have better twitch fibres and therefore run quicker - in fact black people in general do (hence my mention of Chavange etc.....)"

If you said something like that here in the US, you'd be crucified, no joke. They consider that stereotyping, and racist talk. (Not saying I disagree, just stating a fact).


"Northern Hemisphere teams don't have a lot of them and therefore don't have a lot of pace."

The NFL is in the NH, in relative tearms to the NFL and College Football. There are a TON of Poly's (Islanders) playing football, in ratio to the amount of them worldwide, compared to any other race of people in the US.


I would have loved to be able to see how a servicable backup NFL Poly player like Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala would do in Rugby.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12384
NFL.com - Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala


A guy like him could be a Lomu type I think.

[/b]
anese from waikato has better timing than a 4.22 i cant remember his time but tiejens said how fast he was n he beat rokocokos record in da 40m sprint during 7s training i forgot about bobo 2 dat guys fast 2
 
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