Feeding the scrum

[Steve69]

Is it me but every scrum in the world cup and 6 nations is not put in straight they tend to feed the scrum

 

[NamWarrior]

Hasn't been straight for years, just the norm now

 

[itsonlyrugby]

The first ref to call improper feed is in all sorts of trouble. The scrum rules as they stand are biased against the team hooking. The only way they can retain the ball is if the feed is crooked.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think Brian Moore made the point that they should now just change the law on this, because it's blatantly clear that refs just aren't applying the law on straight feeds. It's obvious refs are either being directed to let bent feeds go or are just so fed up of all the collapsed scrums that they and the viewing public just want to get on with it. It's a shame really.

 

[Bee]

Can't remember whe I've seen a straight feeding for the last time. But we do have too many repeats of the scrum already.

 

[petetherhooker]

Feeding should be a yellow card offence. Blatant cheating, and easy not to do.

either that or rename No.2 "thrower", or to retain at least a rhyme, "chucker"

shame though, hooking is an art.

 

[TobesHodges]

The only way scrum feeds will ever be straight is if the referee or a fifth official was to put the ball in.

I actually disagree with the fact that the ball should go in straight, otherwise what is the point in the scrum being a AWARDED to a team, I do agree the ball shouldn't be fed to the second rows by the ball should be fed slightly towards the sides hooker that is feeding the ball in..

 

[ratsapprentice]

The only way scrum feeds will ever be straight is if the referee or a fifth official was to put the ball in.

Or if the refs consistently (as in; every time) penalised squint feeds.

I actually disagree with the fact that the ball should go in straight, otherwise what is the point in the scrum being a AWARDED to a team, I do agree the ball shouldn't be fed to the second rows by the ball should be fed slightly towards the sides hooker that is feeding the ball in..

The team with the put in has the advantage of knowing when the ball is coming in via a signal from the SH - very similar to lineouts.

 

[TobesHodges]

Agree with first statement, have you ever played in the front row? You see the tap, but both Props will call when ball is being fed and the "tap" gives no advantage, hence why scrummies will slightly feed to there hookers..

Also why you see a lot of scrum halfs not even give a call because it's pretty irrelevant..

 

[Bee]

I actually disagree with the fact that the ball should go in straight, otherwise what is the point in the scrum being a AWARDED to a team, I do agree the ball shouldn't be fed to the second rows by the ball should be fed slightly towards the sides hooker that is feeding the ball in..

I do not think the laws of Rugby consider straight feeding optional...

 

[ratsapprentice]

Agree with first statement, have you ever played in the front row? You see the tap, but both Props will call when ball is being fed and the "tap" gives no advantage, hence why scrummies will slightly feed to there hookers..

Meh... are you saying that there was never a time where scrums were competitive, but with a slight advantage for the side with the put in?

 

[TobesHodges]

Meh... are you saying that there was never a time where scrums were competitive, but with a slight advantage for the side with the put in?

I'm saying the advantage is, the scrum half putting the ball in, I'm saying there is no advantage in tapping or the scrum half signalling to the hooker because the props will always see the feed first and signal to their respective hookers anyway..

 

[ratsapprentice]

So your admitting there is an advantage?

 

[TobesHodges]

What?! You said "the advantage is the scrum half tapping the hooker". I'm saying that it isn't an advantage, the advantage at the scrum is simply "the scrum half slightly feeding".
As the scrum halfs signal to hooker is irrelevant because props will signal anyway..
I'm think you've lost track..

 

[ratsapprentice]

Oh, I was confused by your use of the term "feeding" to imply that the feed is skewed.

 

[petetherhooker]

The only way scrum feeds will ever be straight is if the referee or a fifth official was to put the ball in.

I actually disagree with the fact that the ball should go in straight, otherwise what is the point in the scrum being a AWARDED to a team, I do agree the ball shouldn't be fed to the second rows by the ball should be fed slightly towards the sides hooker that is feeding the ball in..

OK time for a lesson.

On your own ball you have two advantages. Firstly you know when the ball is coming in. I still prefer a good old fashioned tap by the hooker, but no matter how fast the props call it, they are still a flash behind the hooker. More importantly, on your own ball you are nearer to the scrum half , and you can block the other hooker. Look at how the heads interlock. if the ball goes down the middle, you should always win your own ball. There is always a small chance that a good hooker and tighthead working together can "take one against the head". That's why its called taking one against the head, because of how the heads interlock.

I retired 20 od years ago, but then at the age of 50, a couple of years ago played a game for my local vets side. Had an absolute wail of a time, because the young lad I was up against just didn't know how to hook.

 

[johnmac99]

I remember the time all Hookers played the ball and some of the time the ball would bounce off the legs of the 2nd row and come out of the side resulting in a re-scrum. This may be what prompted scrum-halfs to feed behind the Hooker and because it meant less re-sets maybe that's why refs. turn a blind eye, plus of course the Hooker can push more.

 

[lhprop1]

I'll go so far as to say that the new scrum cadence isn't conducive to the traditional hook. When we started half a meter apart, there was ground to be gained and the hooker could actually hook the ball if you weren't driving forward.

Now that the front rows start already locked together, you don't get a chance to really gain any ground and allow the hooker to hook the ball. In the old days, the hooker would use his foot brake and engage with one foot slightly forward. Now, all of the feet in the front row are squared up and firmly behind them.

It's not that there wasn't feeding with the old scrum, it's just that it wasn't as blatant. If anything, it would be put in fairly straight with a little English on it to help encourage the ball slightly to your side. Now, there's no hope of getting the ball if it isn't fed damn near right to the 2nd rows.

 

[Isengard]

I guess it has largely gone under the radar but the regulation is now for there to be a "credible" feed, not a straight feed. Name dropping I know but Wayne Barnes told me he is not looking at the feed in the scrum he is looking for illegal scrummaging and player safety issues like pulling on, pulling down, etc. The ball has to go through the centre line but not along it so far as it is possible to tell with such a vague regulation.

EDIT - apologies to anyone who read the word 'scrimmaging' in here first time, bloody autocorrect...

 

[petetherhooker]

I'll go so far as to say that the new scrum cadence isn't conducive to the traditional hook. When we started half a meter apart, there was ground to be gained and the hooker could actually hook the ball if you weren't driving forward.

Now that the front rows start already locked together, you don't get a chance to really gain any ground and allow the hooker to hook the ball. In the old days, the hooker would use his foot brake and engage with one foot slightly forward. Now, all of the feet in the front row are squared up and firmly behind them.

It's not that there wasn't feeding with the old scrum, it's just that it wasn't as blatant. If anything, it would be put in fairly straight with a little English on it to help encourage the ball slightly to your side. Now, there's no hope of getting the ball if it isn't fed damn near right to the 2nd rows.

It is perfectly easy to hook the ball from a standing start under the new regs. There are some hookers around who still hook.

And then the final piece of the jigsaw is that a scrumhalf should put the ball in straight so it bounces in the centre of the tunnel, but if the ball itself is angled down with the point towards the opposition, bingo when it hits the ground, it comes your way