First Class Rugby union

[SouthBedfordshireFan]

Given that rugby union was for a century or so an amateur* sport what games between clubs/teams would be retrospectively considered first class?

*in name only. A number of teams are known to have paid players.

I would suggest John Player Cup/SAANZ tour matches and international Tests.

Any other matches or teams you would regard as FC?

Leicester?
Northampton?
Bristol?
Bath?
Harlequins?
Coventry?
Bedford?
Cardiff?
Swansea?
Pontypool?

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

You mean teams like auckland, Canterbury, western province, northern transvaal? You've got two world class derby's right there. By all and any definition of the word.

 

[SouthBedfordshireFan]

You mean teams like auckland, Canterbury, western province, northern transvaal? You've got two world class derby's right there. By all and any definition of the word.

Kind of.

Which matches would be considered first class? I guess the Currie Cup matches and other similar games would be.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Auckland vs Canterbury and western province vs n transvaal. First class is subjective. NHers tend, imo, to underestimate these teams. And the reason is simple: europeans hardly watch SH club/provincial rugby. Time zones dont help, agreed. But the point remains, they are massively underrated. For instance, during Leinster's last dominance in europe (champions or finalists 5 times in less than 10 years) many here argued they were the best team on the planet. Most of the SHers (excluding nzers to eliminate bias) believed that the Crusaders would have torn them a new one.

 

[SouthBedfordshireFan]

Auckland vs Canterbury and western province vs n transvaal. First class is subjective. NHers tend, imo, to underestimate these teams. And the reason is simple: europeans hardly watch SH club/provincial rugby. Time zones dont help, agreed. But the point remains, they are massively underrated. For instance, during Leinster's last dominance in europe (champions or finalists 5 times in less than 10 years) many here argued they were the best team on the planet. Most of the SHers (excluding nzers to eliminate bias) believed that the Crusaders would have torn them a new one.

First class is indeed subjective.

However I am not sure I have fully explained my enquiry.

Let me try again.

Ultimately I want to list the largest settlement not to have hosted first class rugby.

In that regard I want to identify what matches/teams amongst rugby fans would be regarded as FC so I can then sift through the matches and identify the places that have hosted so I can then narrow down and identify the largest settlement to not have done so.

International Test matches are an obvious example.
Top 3 divisions of English rugby
URC
All Tour matches by touring Tier 1 teams
Currie Cup
NZ Provincial Championship
County Championship

The pre-1995 era might be a bit more difficult considering it was officially amateur.

 

[Brown Bottle]

First class is subjective. No amount of further explanation regarding your enquiry will help, unfortunately, precisely because of that.

 

[SouthBedfordshireFan]

First class is subjective. No amount of further explanation regarding your enquiry will help, unfortunately, precisely because of that.

Indeed it is. Despite its subjectivity there is enough to work with to disregard what is not or do have full consensus of what is. Like the above example of international full Test matches.

For example the Luton vs HUEL Tring II match that took place on 7th March I would assume is not.

While I would assume the Scotland - Ireland Raeburn Shield Triple Crown match today would be.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Sorry, I think you're missing the point

You need to come up with a definition of First Class that you're happy with. There's no consensus on it because it's not a concept most rugby fans would find relevant.

 

[Deleted member 91904]

Auckland vs Canterbury and western province vs n transvaal. First class is subjective. NHers tend, imo, to underestimate these teams. And the reason is simple: europeans hardly watch SH club/provincial rugby. Time zones dont help, agreed. But the point remains, they are massively underrated. For instance, during Leinster's last dominance in europe (champions or finalists 5 times in less than 10 years) many here argued they were the best team on the planet. Most of the SHers (excluding nzers to eliminate bias) believed that the Crusaders would have torn them a new one.

Back in the day there would've been little provincial/club rugby being shown on TV in the other hemisphere

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i'm still struggling with the actual premise

you listed specific matches or teams first as if certain teams or matches are considered "first class" whilst others in the same comp might not be, i was thinking you meant rivalries/derby's

you're trying to find a town/city....i assume in a rugby playing country...that doesnt have a "first class" rugby team?

 

[SouthBedfordshireFan]

i'm still struggling with the actual premise

you listed specific matches or teams first as if certain teams or matches are considered "first class" whilst others in the same comp might not be, i was thinking you meant rivalries/derby's

you're trying to find a town/city....i assume in a rugby playing country...that doesnt have a "first class" rugby team?

Not entirely. I am trying to find the largest town/city that has not hosted first class rugby.

For example Cheltenham hosted the 1905 All Blacks.
Personally I would veer towards regarding that hosting of an international team in a tour match as first class rugby. Therefore to me Cheltenham may not be a candidate. Depends if others in the RU community agree with that.

Hopefully that makes more sense?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Not entirely. I am trying to find the largest town/city that has not hosted first class rugby.

For example Cheltenham hosted the 1905 All Blacks.
Personally I would veer towards regarding that hosting of an international team in a tour match as first class rugby. Therefore to me Cheltenham may not be a candidate. Depends if others in the RU community agree with that.

Hopefully that makes more sense?

if im honest....not much more sense, why give an example of something that doesn''t meet your criteria?

maybe if you explain why you're doing it people will click a little easier....but its going to be hard without defining "first class"...and every example so far has been met with "maybe...maybe not"

 

[Deleted member 91904]

First class has a meaning in cricket. I've never heard it in rugby union until this thread.