I started a responce to an arguement in a different forum and didn't stop typing for a long time. Thought it could pe but here n'all. Do what you will with it; Football Factory Vs Green Street (or Green Street Hooligans Sad to say, a load of them from the Northampton firm started drinking in my local 6-12 months ago, so in turn, I know quite a few, In fact, because two brothers involved are good mates of mine I hear a lot of what goes on, but that's a different story for a different day. Anyway, all the lads I know that run with the firm are exactly like the characters in Football Factory (all be it not so genralised); Grizzly old ******** as the top boys like Billy Bright, tough but sound lads like Tommy and Ron and coked up little shits always causing fights, such as Zeberdee. All of the above snort a bit of Charlie everytime they go out. All of them spend their lives talking about the next meet. All of them have a caracter in Football Factory you could compare them to. In fact, the only part of Football Factory that's OTT and unrealistic is the the coke dealing. And the plotline is nice and simple (which suits the sort of people it is aimed at); We've got millwall in the cup, lets have a fight. Nice and simple. As for Green Street... Lets look at who's there; ~ A Schoolteacher (can't be past his mid 20's) ~ An Airline Pilot (Same as above) ~ A rich boy Harvord student Hardly the sort of people who get involved with football violence. Now let's examine the plot. An American kid runs away to London after being kicked out of Harvord for posessing drugs and goes to a football match with his step brother (I'll call him that as i don't know what the relation is known as really; a Step-brothers brother? a Brother-in-Laws-Brother? Meh), ends up getting mugged on his way home and is rescued by the firm. Who his step brotherhappens to be the leader of (a kid younger then me leading a firm like West Ham's? **** off. For that matter, are there any lads over the age of 25 in that firm?). The American kid is slowly intigrated into the firm and beggins to make a name for himself. The step brothers best mate takes exception to this and f***s off to Millwall for a sulk, where he just so happens to run into their top boy (and amazingly, everyone, everywhere he goes he's know by everyone and treated as if he's Don f***ing Corleone). They have a bit of a natter then go on their merry way. Meanwhile, the American lad is told "We f***ing hate journos"(), which gets him worried, as he is one. After a while, the American kid is called by his dad who asks him to come see him. He meets his father who introduces him to the owner of a big national newspaper. Which one of the firm lads sees. Oh dear, that can't be good. Especially as "We f***ing hate journos". Ahem. Anyway, it all kicks of as his dirty little secret is uncovered. He's a dirty journo... Oh n03s!!! It all kicks off again as the stwep-brothers mate has had another sulk and gone for another chat with the Milwall boys (thinking about it, he spends more bloody time in the film with that firm then he does his own), who decide to firebomb West Hams pub (as that happens a lot in football violence ). So, the up shot of all this results in the step-brothers-big-brother (damn, that's complex) getting glassed in the throat and the 2 firms decide to sort it all out the following morning. With a bit of good old fashioned fistycuffs. All 12 of them. Anyway, not to spoil the predictable Hollywood ending (complete with it's morals) for anyone, why does a film about football violence need a three layered story? Who the **** cares about character development in a film like this? People watch it for one thing; Violence. Pure and unadulterated. And because all of Green Streets fight scenes gave these glossy camera effects, Football Factorys dirty, realistic brawls win that hands down. All in all, Football Factory ****** on Green Street from a great height. And ID does indeed **** all over Football Factory, although it represents the violence of the 80's more then today. Green Street is just there for little kids to say "oooh, it's got Frodo and that bloke of the telly. Wow, their hard". Because it understands football and football culture about as well as I understand Latin surrealist poetry.