Guinness Pro 12 2014/15: Round 19

[lynam1104]

The other thing about Leinster that is massively telling is their ability to throw away a big lead, they've done it countless times this season. Gotten away with it sometimes, like Bath but often not. I'm not laying the blame on MOC as it probably have more to do with on pitch personal, with so many leaders leaving the squad over the last few seasons. Skills, fitness, game plan ect can all be fixed in a fairly straight forward way. Mentality is something that is much harder to build and Leinster look to have lost the players that built it without sufficiently imparting it on the younger guys.

 

[Feicarsinn]

:lol: Well I suppose I shouldn't be surprised - and you shouldn't be surprised that I continue to disagree.

Boss was never that great and age hasn't improved him, while Reddan's ability seems to be nosediving off a cliff. The fact they're internationals is neither here nor there. Neither's McGrath's potential - right now, he reminds me of a raw Tomas O'Leary. Madigan is dangerous as all hell with a strong platform but mainly gets it wrong when he doesn't. And Gopperth is a journeymen, which is never going to be good enough for a side with Leinster's ambitions. Yeah, for a team expecting to win things, it's pretty brutal.

Tbh, all of this reminds me of the Ulster situation. First there was a lot of animus against Anscombe, who had us threatening to perform but failing at the end. So we sacked him - then realised we were in a massive hole and had to ask Daddy D4 to dig us out. That ended in a palaver in which we appointed promising local coach Neil Doak to replace him... and people have spent the better part of a season tearing him to pieces. Oddly enough, that's all quietened down now we've got players like Henderson and Jackson back and are winning games again. But Doak didn't magically become a better coach - and Anscombe didn't magically become a bad coach. The simple truth was when they had their best available, they kicked ass, and when they didn't, it all went a little Pete Tong. Because the Ulster squad simply isn't as strong as some liked to credit it.

And from where I'm sat, it's the same with you. There's no doubt you could get a better coach than MOC. But he's not dealing with a supremely strong squad here. There would be challenges to be faced. And, honestly, it's probably not worth the upheaval and pay-off money to send him a season early. Dempsey avoids the upheaval, but the right thing by Dempsey is not sticking him for a caretaker role before he's ready. The only reason I don't think Ulster made a mistake there with Anscombe were the heavy and persistent rumours from reliable sources that he bullied the kids. That's worth gritting your teeth over. Being a bit boring and being slightly haphazard about hitting the targets? Feh.

Still, go ahead and campaign for his sacking, no skin off of my nose.

Okay, so you're in the position where you don't think your 9 and 10 can't get the job and you know you have another season on your contract. Do you stick to the same guys knowing that this is as good as they'll ever be, or do you try someone else. Maybe give McGrath and Madigan a shot together, give Cathal Marsh a game at 10, actually try find something that works instead of sticking with a system which is clearly faltering. It mightn't be great at the start, but at least it could potentially be better than the situation at the present. That'd make me a lot happier certainly, and I would have thought it'd be the obvious thing to do in that situation.

What I wouldn't do is stick with players who are clearly underperforming (Boss all season, Reddan yesterday) and probably aren't going to get better. I certainly wouldn't have only included one mediocre 10 in my match squad either. It's an indictment of the coach that no one aside from Madigan or Gopperth hs had any time at 10 this season and it's a textbook example of how MOC isn't willing to take any risks.

 

[Peat]

Okay, so you're in the position where you don't think your 9 and 10 can't get the job and you know you have another season on your contract. Do you stick to the same guys knowing that this is as good as they'll ever be, or do you try someone else. Maybe give McGrath and Madigan a shot together, give Cathal Marsh a game at 10, actually try find something that works instead of sticking with a system which is clearly faltering. It mightn't be great at the start, but at least it could potentially be better than the situation at the present. That'd make me a lot happier certainly, and I would have thought it'd be the obvious thing to do in that situation.

What I wouldn't do is stick with players who are clearly underperforming (Boss all season, Reddan yesterday) and probably aren't going to get better. I certainly wouldn't have only included one mediocre 10 in my match squad either. It's an indictment of the coach that no one aside from Madigan or Gopperth hs had any time at 10 this season and it's a textbook example of how MOC isn't willing to take any risks.

Yeah, no real argument with that save one. I have to say, everything I've seen of MOC talks of a short-termist coach who simply aims to win the next game, sometimes the next three. I don't think guys like that should really be at the Irish provinces, not when they live and die by their youth development.

The argument, btw, is we don't know just how hard it would be to trust guys like McGrath and Marsh based on the training ground. Sometimes the alternative is worse - been there and played that one with Small P and the understudies, iHumph, NOC and McKinney... and yeah, I'd still probably back the call for the young guy myself, in the triumph of hope over experience.


I also think Lynam has a really good point about on field leaders. Ruddock's still out injured, right?

 

[lynam1104]

@Peat Ruddock was back for a game I think but then it was found that he need surgery again I believe so he's out for the rest of the season.

 

[big ginger 8]

Think two guys we've really missed, who should have been available are McKinley and EO'M.

 

[Peat]

@Peat Ruddock was back for a game I think but then it was found that he need surgery again I believe so he's out for the rest of the season.

Shame. He's one of the guys who I see standing up as a leader and key player in Leinster's rebuilding.