Harry Ellis Forced to retire

[Teh Mite]

So you honestly believe the TV companies will pay more money for less tv coverage?

Contrary to your belief, pro rugby is a loss making sport... Leicester, Northampton, Gloucester and the big French clubs aside, every single club & province relies on union subsidies and/or a wealthy owner bankrolling them. For the regional franchises in Ireland, Wales and Scotland, this may be sustainable as there are only between 2 and 4 franchises to sustain, but in the English and French leagues there is no way it'd be sustainable. A Euro-League would also never be as successful as the HEC because it wouldn't have the event spectacular element. Playing teams from across Europe would become run of the mill instead of a one-off, regular fans couldn't afford the away trips, the sport becomes stagnant and elitist, then it dies. **** idea.

Back on topic. Regardless, the number of games played is irrelevant. Ellis had his leg stamped on a on against Ospreys in 2005 (beautiful Karma) and never recovered. He's played an average of 8 games per year since then so is hardly burned out. Conversely, the likes of Mike Catt and Bruce Reihana have a decade or so over Ellis and suffer few to no injuries at all because they keep themselves in tip-top condition.

A freak injury can happen on your first game of the season or your 41st. That's what Ellis got and never recovered, it just so happened to be a few years ago.

Did Thom Evans have to also retire because of too many matches?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

So you honestly believe the TV companies will pay more money for less tv coverage?

Yes, I believe TV companies will pay more for, say, two Northampton v Toulouse games of a high intensity than they will for, say, three Northampton v Exeter games where players are more likely to be rested. At present a lot of club games clash with internationals- the audience figures for those games, crowd attendences, newspaper coverage etc is miniscule. There's no value in those games (on about 8 weekends per year) for TV companies.

Contrary to your belief, pro rugby is a loss making sport...

Can you point out one link where I said pro rugby is a profitable sport? Bet you can't. It's loss making because the current model is broken and needs to be overhauled. Outside the box thinking will do that; adding extra LV= Cups games and expanding existing leagues won't.

Leicester, Northampton, Gloucester and the big French clubs aside, every single club & province relies on union subsidies and/or a wealthy owner bankrolling them. For the regional franchises in Ireland, Wales and Scotland, this may be sustainable as there are only between 2 and 4 franchises to sustain, but in the English and French leagues there is no way it'd be sustainable.

...which is further reason for changing the status quo.

A Euro-League would also never be as successful as the HEC because it wouldn't have the event spectacular element. Playing teams from across Europe would become run of the mill instead of a one-off, regular fans couldn't afford the away trips, the sport becomes stagnant and elitist, then it dies.

Depends on how it's arranged. For example, the NFL has it right whereby regional rivalries are maintained (you play the three other teams in your division twice per year) and another 10 games are played against random teams (thus ensuring there's no stagnation). I fully agree, an elite 10 or 12 team competition would have disasterous consequences but an expanded NFL or Heineken Cup style competition could propel the game in Europe to new heights.

**** idea.

See, you were doing well up to this point. Your argument was articulate and well thought out. I don't agree with your viewpoint but I certainly respect it. You've a tremendous rugby knowledge but it's let down by childish comments like this.

Back on topic. Regardless, the number of games played is irrelevant. Ellis had his leg stamped on a on against Ospreys in 2005 (beautiful Karma) and never recovered. He's played an average of 8 games per year since then so is hardly burned out. Conversely, the likes of Mike Catt and Bruce Reihana have a decade or so over Ellis and suffer few to no injuries at all because they keep themselves in tip-top condition.

A freak injury can happen on your first game of the season or your 41st. That's what Ellis got and never recovered, it just so happened to be a few years ago.

Did Thom Evans have to also retire because of too many matches?

What happened Ellis is unfortunate and was a freak injury. I do find it classless when people revel in the suffering of others whether you like the player or not (I recall Aaron Mauger getting equally blunt treatment when he was forced to retire). Thom Evans was another horrible freak injury. The list goes on; Ian McKinley is a hugely talented Leinster u21 flyhalf who may be forced to retire due to a stud getting caught in his eye during a ruck. Matt Hampson's case is well documented. Never for a second have I claimed that isolated incidents like these are as a result of playing too many games.

The new Sale prop (Wihongi) failed a medical in France and couldn't get a contract over there. That's because of too many injuries sustained in a ridiculously taxing schedule. Malcolm O'Kelly was recently interviewed and said that the reason he retired is because the sport is taking too much of a toll on his body. Brian O'Driscoll regularly suffers from "stingers" and "vertigo"- basically he's constantly concussed but admitting to it would result in a mandatory three week break from the sport. I'd hate to think what Jonny Wilkinson has done to his body. Bernard Jackman is an example of somebody who had to retire because of too much rugby. There's an article on him and his injury struggles in the Irish Independent which is well worth a read. Here's an extract:

Some weeks ago, he read an article about concussion. Based on a study of NFL players in America, it deduced that any recipient of more than five concussions in their career ran a significantly increased risk of brain-related disease later in life.And that single sentence blew like a cold breeze through his rib-cage.
He guesses that he's had, maybe, 20 concussions in the last three years alone. "By the end, I'd say I could have been knocked out in a pillow fight," he sighs. And that's pretty much what happened him at Twickenham in January.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gae...ust-from-the-impact-of-the-scrum-2218015.html

Do you think he'd have suffered 20 concussions in the last three years if the playing calender was less demanding? Do you think this is a situation which should be allowed continue?



There's another very good article on the demands placing modern players in the Sunday Independent from a couple of months ago:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rugbys-own-head-shops-remain-open-for-business-2191313.html

I'm very concerned with player's long term welfare once they retire and the sport needs to adress these issues. I've no doubt that reducing the amount of games played will be recommended by the IRB once their concussion working groups deliver their final reports.

 

[Teh Mite]

What a load of piffle.

A Euro League won't "change the Status Quo", it's just make things more elitist and kick out those smaller clubs who have ambitions of making to the top as a glass ceiling will be put in place as Munster, Toulouse and Stade Francais grab all the headlines and a few others make up the numbers. And ambitions that teams such as Exeter have no chance of elevating to the next level because of it.

Agreed the LV cup is pointless, and playoffs are crap, but a Euro league will NEVER make the sport bigger. It's proven in every competition that's ever tried it that it simply doesn't work.

As for player welfare regarding injures, you mentioned Jonny Wilkinson. Let's look at his situation; He's now playing in Toulon, a much better club then Newcastle, under better coaches and is visibly in much better condition then he ever was before. It's no coincidence that he's barely been injured all season (in fact, the only one was a pulled muscle in the ECC final unless my info in front of me is flawed). If even he can manage it, that says more for the unfit players elsewhere. Top players in the Celtic league, who bare play more then once a fortnight outside the HEC, have no excuses either.

Another example is at Northampton where Nick Johnson was recruited from Sale as the fitness coach 2 seasons ago. It was no coincidence that in his first season Saint's were hailed as "lucky with injuries", yet haven't had a player out for more then a couple of weeks since unless they've broken a bone.

The tabloid headline of "20 concussions in 3 years" proves nothing. This ain't tiddlywinks mate, he could play 20 times a year and get a concussion inducing blow to the head in each game. It's called bad luck. If he didn't understand the risks, he wouldn't have chosen to make a career of playing the sport.

Or maybe they should ban scrums and make everyone wear 20 lbs of padding for every game.

Better still, use a round ball and minimise the contact. Then they can just kick it through the rectangular section under the crossbar to score and not risk any injuries in contact.

Or maybe the whining old women can man the **** up.

 

[munster2010]

sorry to hear i rated him as a player, but it will give some youngster a chance to step up and shine

 

[NEEPS]

wow thats 4 good players retired from injury this summer

thom evans, gavin henson, michael owen, harry ellis

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Henson hasn't retired...in theory

 

[SelimNiai]

He's semi-retired due to prancing around like a footballer.

 

[NEEPS]

awell thats not to bad then even though he's no where near as good as he used to be

 

[munster2010]

wow thats 4 good players retired from injury this summer

thom evans, gavin henson, michael owen, harry ellis

has evans retired? i thought he was going to try and come back

 

[TRF_Cymro]

has evans retired? i thought he was going to try and come back

Evans has retired on medical advice.