Heineken Cup Semi Final- Saracens v Clermont

[gaston le gaff]

All i can add is that the Sarries outplayed and out thought Clermont, for a team deemed to be boring, 6 tries to me is not that boring, Clermont were not allowed to play their game they were drowned by a ferocious defence, which like it or not wins games, as long as you have an attack that goes with it..... and Sarries certainly did excellent handling with fast hands, and around the rucks and mauls they were the Kings, if anything their scrum was not brilliant, but does that really matter if you score 6-0 tries.Must admit i have never seen Clermont play that badly but there's always a first time for everything. Nigel Owens harsh but correct in his decisions........sometimes the rub of the green just goes one way thats life .....Sarries deserve their victory now for the Battle of the Bulge this afternoon.

 

[Groundhog]

I think Smartcooky is being a tad misunderstood.
It was highly visible yesterday that when Clermont suffered three quick fire tries, they had a brief period of flinging it around to score tries and when that didn't work they backed off and let their heads drop. Now that's a testament to Sarries defence and while not aesthetically pleasing its effective.
I think this was the original point and the rest all sparked from here.

 

[smartcooky]

I think Smartcooky is being a tad misunderstood.
It was highly visible yesterday that when Clermont suffered three quick fire tries, they had a brief period of flinging it around to score tries and when that didn't work they backed off and let their heads drop. Now that's a testament to Sarries defence and while not aesthetically pleasing its effective.
I think this was the original point and the rest all sparked from here.

Misunderstood is an understatement!

Tallshort completely misrepresented what I said and in so doing, created a strawman which he set about attacking.

Most here get it even if Tallshort doesn't!

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

I thought it was patently obvious that Clermont, once the game was gone, coasted the last quarter.

 

[Patchey]

I think the attendance issue is a bit disappointed but not exactly unexpected. Twickenham isn't a good stadium to travel too at all, Sarries have a much smaller fan base than most people think (they're obsession with playing games at big venues and drawing people in with cheap tickets brings a lot of casual fans to the games) and Clermont don't have a big profile in England. Last year the Sarries v Toulon game was much better attended, largely due to Toulon's profile and the presence of Jonny in their team. Sarries should have played at Allianz park IMO.

I thought it was patently obvious that Clermont, once the game was gone, coasted the last quarter.

Agree with that totally. But I think thats more because Clermont do that when they're losing away from home rather than because they're a Top 14 side who have more than an eye on the domestic run in.

 

[smartcooky]

All i can add is that the Sarries outplayed and out thought Clermont, for a team deemed to be boring, 6 tries to me is not that boring, Clermont were not allowed to play their game they were drowned by a ferocious defence, which like it or not wins games, as long as you have an attack that goes with it..... and Sarries certainly did excellent handling with fast hands, and around the rucks and mauls they were the Kings, if anything their scrum was not brilliant, but does that really matter if you score 6-0 tries.Must admit i have never seen Clermont play that badly but there's always a first time for everything. Nigel Owens harsh but correct in his decisions........sometimes the rub of the green just goes one way thats life .....Sarries deserve their victory now for the Battle of the Bulge this afternoon.

I thought Sarries were outstanding, and really, Clermont looked as if they were in a holding pattern, just barely doing a containing job, but Sarries just blew them away. Sometimes you can get a match like that, that just inexplicably comes out of nowhere.

Back in the 2002 Super 12, in the final round before the semis, there was a match between The Crusaders and the Waratahs. It was 1st v 2nd on the table; the Crusaders were unbeaten and the Waratahs had lost only two matches, close losses away to the Reds (by 7) and the Blues (by 2). Both teams had similar points differences (Crusaders +130, Waratahs +128), both had scored about the same number of tries (41 v 38) but the Waratahs had the second best defence, conceding only 19 tries in 10 matches compared with the Crusaders' 26. Everything pointed to a tight, top of the table clash as an aperitif to the semis. Nothing that happened beforehand gave any clue to what was going to happen next.

At half time, the Crusaders led 63-0, and they went on to win 96-19. It was just one of those games; nearly every 50/50 pass stuck and those that didn't went backwards to another red player's hand, every bounce of the ball went their way, everything they tried came off. Now while that Crusaders team was arguably the best Super 12 team ever (the only team to finish a season with a 100% record), the poor old Waratahs were really not that far behind them, but on that night they simply couldn't take a trick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-fuHGBfKCI

 

[TheSaffycen]

Last year the Sarries v Toulon game was much better attended, largely due to Toulon's profile and the presence of Jonny in their team. Sarries should have played at Allianz park IMO.

I don't think Allianz Park is big enough to host a semi-final is can only hold 10,000
http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,3822_9280011,00.html

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't think Allianz Park is big enough to host a semi-final is can only hold 10,000
http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,3822_9280011,00.html

And little fact even if it was big enough the home team can host it in their own ground so it was impossible for Allianz Park anyway

 

[smartcooky]

I don't think Allianz Park is big enough to host a semi-final is can only hold 10,000
http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,3822_9280011,00.html

Vicarage Road 17,000
Barnet Copthall 10,000

When most other clubs are trying to increase stadium capacity, they move to one with a lower capacity? That is very odd!

I don't know Barnet Copthall at all. Is there room for expansion?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Allianz is set up to have expansion down the line - they aren't selling out so it's not an issue at the moment.

Also, Vicarage Road was a dump, a move away from there was needed.

 

[Patchey]

I don't think Allianz Park is big enough to host a semi-final is can only hold 10,000
http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,3822_9280011,00.html

God, is it really that small? I played a game there this season and it seemed pretty large from where I was.

I guess they could replace the smaller of the two permanent stands with a larger one quite easily.

 

[Tony Manx]

I think Allianz is set up to have expansion down the line - they aren't selling out so it's not an issue at the moment.

Also, Vicarage Road was a dump, a move away from there was needed.

Agree about Vicarage road but wonder if the redevelopment of Allianz will ever proceed bearing in mind Wray's desire to play everywhere in the world other than at Allianz!!

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think the smaller main stand is due for an imminent upgrade, next year I think?

There is loads of space on that site though.

 

[Big Ewis]

No it is true, we are not as good at open attacking rugby and we knew going in that if it got loose we lose. Simple as. We kept it structured and not many teams can keep with us when we make it a tacklefest, kick and chase, put it in the corner and just like a Boa constrictor squeeze the life out of you. Then we add the points when teams can't handle us, look at Harlequins, Tigers, Connacht and Clermont it is all the same gameplan- have the ball we beat you up then last 20 minutes we score 15+ points.

indeed, but although it's not the most flamboyant style I do actually like they play hard at the breakdown like that and are such a no nonsense organization. They recognize their qualities and how to optimize their potential and play a pragmatic game full of heart and good will.
Both Vunipolas add a lot of MASS and although Mako may be a liability in the scrum sometimes although he holds his own, he takes a whole lot to put down as a carrier. Burger is fantastic, I love K.Brown. The Sarries have a fantastic pack, they have a fearsome scrum (Clermont just happens to have one of the best in all Europe, thus the world). And of course their defense.

And again I really appreciate the try-scoring. That back-line can be a bit lackluster but has good quality in it. They're not all crazy flashy but they run fine lines, can have the ball circulate quickly and neatly, and just play an efficient backs game:



- Love the first try, very good stuff, creating space and depth out of nothing, double inside pass, score.
- I do think awarding the penalty try was harsh given the additional yellow to Brock J., but then again I don't know the rules.
- The Farrell one was superb, it's just a shame it looks so broken up and knockon-ish on the last catch. Although when I watch it again just now I realize the Clermont players all thought it was a knock-on and braked on their running. Look at Fofana for e.g.
- Excellent control on the 2nd Ashton try, he made that try. Some ppl thought there was luck there, but he gives the ball its trajectory with accurate kicking, great pace and control.
- Last two are very nice too, very different but both in their own way very solid stuff.