England 2025/26

[Vieux Talonneur]

Wonder how much Ford, Dan, Hill, Fisilau, Ojomoh, Steward, Clark and Sela have enjoyed their intercontinental training trip. Think I’m right in saying not a minute’s game time between them. Not to mention the call ups of CCS and Roebuck.

Maybe someone Sela’s age doesn’t mind so much, but got to be pretty dispiriting.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Wonder how much Ford, Dan, Hill, Fisilau, Ojomoh, Steward, Clark and Sela have enjoyed their intercontinental training trip. Think I’m right in saying not a minute’s game time between them. Not to mention the call ups of CCS and Roebuck.

Maybe someone Sela’s age doesn’t mind so much, but got to be pretty dispiriting.

Just the usual **** poor man management from England.

 

[Saintjay]

I think Borthwick knows his neck is on the block. Wins and performances matter.

He could have thrown them to the wolves vs SA. Nobody expected us to win. In theory they should have been good enough to beat Fiji.

Still if he doesn't have an idea of his world cup 23 now then who knows. We desperately need some continuity.

 

[Scotty]

Just the usual **** poor man management from England.

Honestly I'm not sure it is...but it doesn't make it not his fault.

By that i mean hes done terribly over the past few years so we are in a position where we need to get a solid first team that's experienced and playing well together before we can do what SA do and use fringe players with a strong core of first teamers.

Right now hes doing what he has to do imo, maybe could look at 1 or 2 but the reason it's right now is because he do so badly before.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

100% caused his own issues. Fiji was the game to try anyone but he’s obviously under pressure so is looking to win every game he can with his first team.

Can’t wait until we go to a WC with Dan as our only experienced hooker when George and LCD get broken.

We are back in the jones era of blocking depth in certain positions.

 

[Reiser99]

I think Borthwick knows his neck is on the block. Wins and performances matter.

He could have thrown them to the wolves vs SA. Nobody expected us to win. In theory they should have been good enough to beat Fiji.

Still if he doesn't have an idea of his world cup 23 now then who knows. We desperately need some continuity.

Agreed, we've got a coach who's desperate for a win and has no idea what his best team is. He's just hoping for the best.

 

[Quel Carreleur]

I think Borthwick knows what his best team looks like.
His problem is that the players available don't look like that...

This does not say good things about him, or that he'd be successful if he did actually have the players he wants.

If he was head coach of South Africa, they'd probably still be top 4, but it wouldn't be comfortable.

 

[Reiser99]

I think Borthwick knows what his best team looks like.
His problem is that the players available don't look like that...

This does not say good things about him, or that he'd be successful if he did actually have the players he wants.

If he was head coach of South Africa, they'd probably still be top 4, but it wouldn't be comfortable.

You honestly think he knows he best centre combo or possibly even his best wing combo for that?

 

[Quel Carreleur]

You honestly think he knows he best centre combo or possibly even his best wing combo for that?

Yes.
He wants Greenwood and Esterhuizen.

 

[higgik]

You honestly think he knows he best centre combo or possibly even his best wing combo for that?

Reminds me of Tuchel, has a plan, but the players he wants are either injured or not on form, so he is trying to find players to fit, rather than adapting tge game plan

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Reminds me of Tuchel, has a plan, but the players he wants are either injured or not on form, so he is trying to find players to fit, rather than adapting tge game plan

Not quite on topic but according to media reports Tuchel has been getting into Rugby since he started his job. He has been calling his subs finishers and was inspired supposedly by the Bomb squad.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Not quite on topic but according to media reports Tuchel has been getting into Rugby since he started his job. He has been calling his subs finishers and was inspired supposedly by the Bomb squad.

The bomb squad is supposed to come on and up the pressure on the opposing team though, not absorb it

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

In fairness it did bomb.

 

[BrokenWing]

It wasn’t very absorbent either.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It wasn’t very absorbent either.

Soft, not strong nor thoroughly absorbent.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So where does all that leave us?

If SB’s job was under threat, 2 wins have probably saved it.

We didn’t really learn too much about new players. Maybe Atkinson put his hand up but not much else really.

Team is capable of some good rugby but still some huge fault lines in mentality and discipline. That’s not all down to the coaches.

Still all a bit of a muddle.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Feels like such a waste of the summer for us tbh

 

[Saintjay]

The squads changed around some.

I don't think think we are any further forward going into this RWC than the last.

 

[Geordie]

So where does all that leave us?

If SB’s job was under threat, 2 wins have probably saved it.

We didn’t really learn too much about new players. Maybe Atkinson put his hand up but not much else really.

Team is capable of some good rugby but still some huge fault lines in mentality and discipline. That’s not all down to the coaches.

Still all a bit of a muddle.

Yeah, I thought Atkinson was the answer but I've come away from this summer unsure.

George Martin good to have him back. Coles developing well. 35 tackles wow!

Waboso needs to stay fit.

But Hooker? Hhmmm

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I thought Atkinson was the answer but I've come away from this summer unsure

Any specific reason?
I think yesterday should have secured him the spot tbh, he was very very good

 

[Brown Bottle]

Any specific reason?
I think yesterday should have secured him the spot tbh, he was very very good

Blimey. If experts can't agree on our best centres how is Borthwick supposed to. Bloke can't win.

 

[LIONSxv]

Any specific reason?
I think yesterday should have secured him the spot tbh, he was very very good

I have been very impressed with Atkinson already looks test class. Can carry, hit hard and has a lovely range of passing

 

[Scotty]

I have been very impressed with Atkinson already looks test class. Can carry, hit hard and has a lovely range of passing

Honestly I'm happy with him and BJVR(he isnt going anywhere) as our 12s.

Who are our 13s? Freeman has the talent but not the experience, same as MSmith at 15 it just isn't his natural position.

Slade, has come out with some credit from this series. We have lost but done better with Slade at 13 and Freeman 14 for SA.

Lawrence, class player but has his faults

Marchant? Not seen him play at all since he left for France but be interested to here how hes gone.

Who else?

 

[Ddanno]

Not sure Slade has credit from any of his many, many, many international caps.

Marchant has been tearing it up well enough, so if we're resigned to The Merc., then 12 mullet, 13 Marchant would be alright. But it's still tickling the edges when the basics are ******* ****

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm ok with seeing if Atkinson/Slade can work properly in the autumn - I've never been a huge fan of Slade for England but he's been excellent for Chiefs and I'm willing to give him one more benefit of the doubt and see if he and Atkinson can click


Tom Litchfield and Will Wand are the most exciting next in lines
Wand has England A experience, too

Not sure if Borthwick will look at completely green players this close to the world cup - I could see them looking at Marchant if he hits the ground running though

 

[Ddanno]

Not sure Slade has credit from any of his many, many, many international caps.

Marchant has been tearing it up well enough, so if we're resigned to The Merc., then 12 mullet, 13 Marchant would be alright. But it's still tickling the edges when the basics are ******* ****

Just remember IT'S NOT THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT DISCIPLINE

 

[Ddanno]

I'm ok with seeing if Atkinson/Slade can work properly in the autumn - I've never been a huge fan of Slade for England but he's been excellent for Chiefs and I'm willing to give him one more benefit of the doubt and see if he and Atkinson can click


Tom Litchfield and Will Wand are the most exciting next in lines
Wand has England A experience, too

Not sure if Borthwick will look at completely green players this close to the world cup - I could see them looking at Marchant if he hits the ground running though

Really?? We've been on this train for ten years. I know that selection is the last of our issues, but Slade has been the Farrell to our Dan Cole

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I am biased. But in my view Slade has always been good when paired with an actual 12. It’s only been when he’s been paired with 13s at 12, or when he himself has been forced into 12 that he’s struggled.

He’s not gonna set the world alight but he’s a solid operator, and this England team could do a lot worse than solid operators right now.

 

[Ddanno]

I am biased. But in my view Slade has always been good when paired with an actual 12. It’s only been when he’s been paired with 13s at 12, or when he himself has been forced into 12 that he’s struggled.

He’s not gonna set the world alight but he’s a solid operator, and this England team could do a lot worse than solid operators right now.

Yeah but he's been a "solid operator" for ten years and operated the plum quantangle of nothing squared.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

With selection I’d be happy to keep the same team until either someone deserves to be dropped or someone really sticks their hand up (and then proves themselves on the bench).

Not withstanding the above we do need to blood some of those 3rd choice players on the weaker teams but due to previous tactics and selection there are no weaker teams now (thanks Borthwick).

The biggest question is still tactics and style. We played well in the first half but after half time changed how we played and sucked.

Does that mean the players went off piece or did Borthwick want to change the style when we were in front meaning he’s even more of a crappy coach than everyone already thought.

What I need to see is the same style and tactics (to an extent) over the next 5 plus games now.

Still loads of questions unanswered around selection though.