Heineken Cup talks "have now ended"

[bertiec]

Magic

Two good latest posts from Prestwick & coolbawn.

No finger pointing or barbed comments, just stating things as they stand and like me recognising that in some quarters the current status quo is resulting in a shambles which cannot continue without detriment to all those involved.

This hasnt been brought on by the PRL alone, and even though i am not 100% behind their stance, i will back them on here in the face of unwarranted and unjustifiable attacks on a solitary basis. I find it quite disturbing that there are some BM's that are salivating in their desire to see one particular side fail here. If one side fails, then all will suffer, but some will suffer far worse than others to the extent that their domestic system will fail. that is not an option as far as i'm concerned and hopefully the new impetus by the RFU will see a light at the end of the tunnel:

http://www.espnscrum.com/heineken-cup-2013-14/rugby/story/208997.html
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/25382232

This is the perfect solution. All the unions agree? what more can you wish for.

 

[Peat]

I'm not entirely certain what changes with that to an extent. That's still union control. Just you change the name and - crucially - a new organisation would have new TV contracts...

edit: That said...

If this is true, and I were in the EPL's shoes, I would consider a new holding company for the Heineken Cup which accepted the TV deal but still accepted Union control and maintained the distribution of funds by union, as quite the result. The unions are clearly willing to go a long distance not to be sidelined, and I'd have thought that sort of compromise preferable to financial Russian roulette. But I'm not the EPL.

Oops. Shoulda said PRL instead of EPL. Still, called it...

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/25468276

The Welsh Rugby Union has confirmed chief executive Roger Lewis had informal talks with leading English clubs about a British league in 2012.
But it says the idea was rejected "out of hand"....................The WRU confirmed: "The Welsh Rugby Union informally discussed the possibility of a British and Irish competition with [PRL chief executive] Mark McCafferty in Dublin last year, prior to any of the existing broadcast agreements being signed, but the idea was rejected out of hand at the time."

Could it be that PRL really don't give a sh*t about the Welsh clubs and are merely using them as a pawn in their power play? Colour me surprised!

For what it's worth, a B&I League isn't a bad idea once Italy are accommodated in the Top 14/16. If any of the WRU, IRFU, SRU or FIR are jettisoned for a quick buck, it's bad for rugby.

 

[Rich Taff]

Anglo-Welsh league will never happen whilst Bristol are not in the Premiership, as they have a seat on the PL board, and will not let Welsh teams join whilst English sides (Bristol in particular) are still outside it.

I can't remember who it was, but there was a Welsh guy who's on the Bristol board doing some studio commentary for the Blues v Ospreys game earlier, and (I think)he mentioned it. (covering my ass for libel there )

 

[McTallshort]

Could it be that PRL really don't give a sh*t about the Welsh clubs and are merely using them as a pawn in their power play? Colour me surprised!

For what it's worth, a B&I League isn't a bad idea once Italy are accommodated in the Top 14/16. If any of the WRU, IRFU, SRU or FIR are jettisoned for a quick buck, it's bad for rugby.

Yes the current crisis between the welsh regions and the WRU is totally the fault of the horrid PRL. In other news its now believed the PRL were directly involved in the shooting of JFK, 9/11 and the earthquake in Japan. The have also opened a new central headquartes in a disused volcano on a tropical island and are now to be known as SPECTRE.

 

[Amiga500]

hopefully the new impetus by the RFU will see a light at the end of the tunnel:

http://www.espnscrum.com/heineken-cup-2013-14/rugby/story/208997.html
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/25382232

Within ERC, the PRL and LNR have votes.

Within the 6N committee they do not.


Given the ERC has agreed to the qualification changes and monies distribution and the outstanding issues were governance and TV; therefore if the PRL is willing to have the 6N committee take charge then the issue is, and always has been, the BT deal.

Everything else around that would then appear to have been at best, added extras, at worst, fluff.


[I cast my mind back to what Paul Goze said some time ago; to paraphrase, it was along the lines of: "the English clubs have a binding TV contract, there is no room for compromises".]

 

[Rich Taff]

yes the current crisis between the welsh regions and the wru is totally the fault of the horrid prl. In other news its now believed the prl were directly involved in the shooting of jfk, 9/11 and the earthquake in japan. The have also opened a new central headquartes in a disused volcano on a tropical island and are now to be known as spectre.

i knew it!

 

[Tony Manx]

Yes the current crisis between the welsh regions and the WRU is totally the fault of the horrid PRL. In other news its now believed the PRL were directly involved in the shooting of JFK, 9/11 and the earthquake in Japan. The have also opened a new central headquartes in a disused volcano on a tropical island and are now to be known as SPECTRE.

Dont be silly....the PRL were not about at the time of the JFK shooting........................

 

[Thingimubob]

Dont be silly....the PRL were not about at the time of the JFK shooting........................

How do you know that? HOW DO YOU KNOW?! WE CAN'T TRUST ANYONE!

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Yes the current crisis between the welsh regions and the WRU is totally the fault of the horrid PRL. In other news its now believed the PRL were directly involved in the shooting of JFK, 9/11 and the earthquake in Japan. The have also opened a new central headquartes in a disused volcano on a tropical island and are now to be known as SPECTRE.

What do you think has changed between 2012 when PRL rejected out of hand the prospect of Welsh clubs joining and 2013 when they welcome it? I'm interested to hear your opinion on it.

While you're at it, can you point out where I linked the problems between the WRU and RRW to PRL please?

I don't agree with your point of view but I respect it and argue it coherently. I don't think the above argument affords the same courtesy to those who disagree with you or advances the debate in any way.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think the crisis between the regions and WRU is the fault of the PRL, nor is it anything new or surprising.
I do think that the PRL are trying to capitalise on it for their own gains - so while they're definitely looking at what they can get out of the situation, the situation itself is not their fault.

 

[j'nuh]

What do you think has changed between 2012 when PRL rejected out of hand the prospect of Welsh clubs joining and 2013 when they welcome it? I'm interested to hear your opinion on it.

While you're at it, can you point out where I linked the problems between the WRU and RRW to PRL please?

I don't agree with your point of view but I respect it and argue it coherently. I don't think the above argument affords the same courtesy to those who disagree with you or advances the debate in any way.

They may have rejected a British and Irish league, although the PRL denies this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25468276), but I don't think there's a mention of them rejecting an Anglo-Welsh one.

There's a big difference. As a fan, I'd happily see the Premiership replaced by an Anglo-Welsh league, but I would steadfastly refuse a B&I one. Partly because it'd feel like Europe-lite (especially if a tournament including French teams runs parallel), partly because we'd be sacrificing too much control over our own domestic game, partly because of the distances between teams, partly because the number of teams will become excessive and may mean splitting the league, partly because promotion/relegation really does become an issue, partly because I think the Scottish teams are dying and they could drag the league down, etc. The Pro12 struggles. Replacing the Italians with the English may or may not help, but I wouldn't like to take the risk when England already have a good set-up.

In contrast, I think an Anglo-Welsh league would be a fantastic product that would work out to the mutual benefit of both nations, and with just two nations involved, a separation would be much easier if it weren't to work out for one or both parties.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Also worth considering an Anglo-Welsh is PRL and RRW working together (with RFU/WRU involved to some extent) - involving Irish sides means involving the IRFU in a major way, and it could be that the clubs don't want a union playing such a large role in it.

 

[coolbawn]

Quote j-nuh "In contrast, I think an Anglo-Welsh league would be a fantastic product that would work out to the mutual benefit of both nations, and with just two nations involved, a separation would be much easier if it weren't to work out for one or both parties."

Is there a danger that you would "soon" also have plenty of time to enjoy the 3-Nations Championship, albeit entirely in the 2nd half of January ?

The big difference between business and sport is that sport depends on ones competitors being strong enough to compete against one - hence some countries' unions and rugby communities are genuinely keen to let their neighbours flourish.

 

[coolbawn]

I love the way that the contributions to this forum increase when the alternative is to go Christmas shopping. Maybe there's something which could unite us.

 

[McTallshort]

What do you think has changed between 2012 when PRL rejected out of hand the prospect of Welsh clubs joining and 2013 when they welcome it? I'm interested to hear your opinion on it.

While you're at it, can you point out where I linked the problems between the WRU and RRW to PRL please?

I don't agree with your point of view but I respect it and argue it coherently. I don't think the above argument affords the same courtesy to those who disagree with you or advances the debate in any way.

Fair point snoop but some of the stuff being alleged on here about the PRL is getting daft. The whole George North thing is simply a body enforcing an agreement all the clubs signed up to but its been seen as some huge power play by the PRL when it is actually the WRU playing the big man demanding the welsh regions supply their best players outside an agreed window and also putting pressure on players to only sign for clubs that allow them to be released when the WRU decide they want to fill the coffers.

Also have you thought that is the Welsh regions that are taking advantage of the PRLs position to gain leverage with the Welsh union? Give us what we want or we will bugger off and join the english who would welcome us with open arms now the French have switched sides.

 

[Tony Manx]

I have to say I am bemused by the Anglo Welsh idea being mooted......what are the Ospreys, Daragons, Cardiff and Scarletts going to add to the PRL?

If there is to be relegation from the "proposed" new league, they will all be fighting it along with Newcastle and Worcester or whoever replaces them The crowds atttracted to present Rabo games are desultory and they would not have the finance to compete and it would make a league of 16 meaning 30 games a season........

All very strange to me other than a one season wonder?

 

[smartcooky]

What do you think has changed between 2012 when PRL rejected out of hand the prospect of Welsh clubs joining and 2013 when they welcome it?

What changed is that their powerplay over the Heineken Cup has backfired on them and they have ended up painting themselves into a corner. The Welsh are their only way out, without them, they are all alone with no place to go.

PRL is anybody's ***** at the moment.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

From the Torygraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...r-Welsh-regions-and-four-Irish-provinces.html

It seems strange that they'd be interested in the Irish market seeing as they have no presence here. Then again, RaboDirect have no market (or very little share) in Wales, Scotland or Italy yet sponsored a league involving their clubs. Could it be that BT are looking to take over the headline sponsorship of the Pro 12?

I can understand their interest in the Welsh regions if they're trying to scoop them up for the RCC.

 

[Rich Taff]

I have to say I am bemused by the Anglo Welsh idea being mooted......what are the Ospreys, Daragons, Cardiff and Scarletts going to add to the PRL?

Possibly the 'worst spelling of team names' of all time