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Heyneke Meyer named Bok coach
- Thread starter TRF_heineken
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4 years late but I came anyway.
Fairydust by now 
Congrats to Heyneke. The Meyer of Pretoria becomes the Meyer of SA.
Deffinatly the right man for the job. In my opinion his touhgest task will be to find a captain. None of the current Super Rugby captains are in the same league as Victor and John Smith and none will probably still be there in 2015.
It seems the favourite at this stage is Schalla, but you can not have a loose canon as a captain and with number of quality loosies coming through in basically every team he will have to battle to keep his place in the team. One thing is for sure SA rugby cannot aford another Smith/ Bismarck scenario. I am sure with Heyneke there it won't happen.
Another option is perhaps Fourie but he was found wanted when he was captain in the 2008 season when Vic was in France. Although he wasn't sharp in last years RWC (due to injury and lack of game time) i would still prefer him ahead of Hougie who is more dangerous on the wing any case. Par injuries he might still be good enough for RWC 2015 because besides hougie there is no one pressing him for the no 9 spot.
Deffinatly the right man for the job. In my opinion his touhgest task will be to find a captain. None of the current Super Rugby captains are in the same league as Victor and John Smith and none will probably still be there in 2015.
It seems the favourite at this stage is Schalla, but you can not have a loose canon as a captain and with number of quality loosies coming through in basically every team he will have to battle to keep his place in the team. One thing is for sure SA rugby cannot aford another Smith/ Bismarck scenario. I am sure with Heyneke there it won't happen.
Another option is perhaps Fourie but he was found wanted when he was captain in the 2008 season when Vic was in France. Although he wasn't sharp in last years RWC (due to injury and lack of game time) i would still prefer him ahead of Hougie who is more dangerous on the wing any case. Par injuries he might still be good enough for RWC 2015 because besides hougie there is no one pressing him for the no 9 spot.
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kusta
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So tired of that line, people should get over it now clearly Heyneke did so should you!
Tired of that line? It only gained relevance today... or am I missing something?
kusta
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Guess I've just been hearing it a lot lately
Amobokoboko
Waikato Junglist
Good for SA. With a wee bit of luck Matfield might assist him as well. As they are really good friends.
High expectations for 2015
High expectations for 2015
Seaton
First XV
Meh, will be interesting to see what happens, especially with regards to the player representation from the different unions. Guess we won't be seeing players from across the Juksal (sp)
I'm lucky I won't be able to be around to cringe when the Boks play at Loftus, oh I can just imagine the porous stuff the Supersport commentators will come up with for 'Fortress Loftus'
I'm lucky I won't be able to be around to cringe when the Boks play at Loftus, oh I can just imagine the porous stuff the Supersport commentators will come up with for 'Fortress Loftus'
LOL! I love this, everyone thinking that Heyneke will only play Bulls players... Seriously??
He said in the media conference that he will use players based overseas as well as local.
Heyneke is known for his great search in young raw talent and picking the best guys in the required position. How about we just give him a chance and see what happens. As for his support staff, what's wrong with picking only Bulls guys who he has worked with more than 5 years? that could be a good thing in that all will know what is expected from them, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will only employ Bulls guys.
I heard somewhere he will be the first Bok-coach not to be based in Cape Town?
He said in the media conference that he will use players based overseas as well as local.
Heyneke is known for his great search in young raw talent and picking the best guys in the required position. How about we just give him a chance and see what happens. As for his support staff, what's wrong with picking only Bulls guys who he has worked with more than 5 years? that could be a good thing in that all will know what is expected from them, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will only employ Bulls guys.
I heard somewhere he will be the first Bok-coach not to be based in Cape Town?
Yeah, I'll give him more credit than expecting him to only play Bulls players. We'll have to wait and see I guess. As for support staff I can understand him wanting guys he knows he can count on and have an existing working relationship with. I've heard that Jacques Nienaber is allready on board which is great for the bokke and allready one person not in the Bulls fold to support Heyneke.
What will be more interesting is to see the gameplan and player selections; who will be captain? When will he call up young guys and will it be one or two at a time or a clean sweep?
Personally I hope he gets the young guys in as soon as possible but not all of them; maybe bring in the guys from overseas with experience (Gerhard Mostert, Frans Steyn, Jaque Fourie, Ruan Pienaar) to bolster the number of home based core players (Du Plessis brothers, Beast, Bekker, Burger, Alberts, Brussow, Hougaard, Lambie, Aplon, De Jongh) and then 2 or 3 new guys and the year after 3 more.
Some guys like JP Pietersen need to show some form in Superrugby while I sincerely hope Juan Smith gets fit and Spies and Habana get dropped totally. Maybe with some gametime Chiliboy can also justify his probable inclusion. He certainly has talent but his selection has never been truly justified IMO.
Some up-and-commers and/or fringe players I'd like to see get a look-in (depending on Superrugby form and fitness): Adriaan Strauss, Rynhardt Elstadt, Arno Botha, Riaan Viljoen, Johan Goosen and Jaco Taute.
What will be more interesting is to see the gameplan and player selections; who will be captain? When will he call up young guys and will it be one or two at a time or a clean sweep?
Personally I hope he gets the young guys in as soon as possible but not all of them; maybe bring in the guys from overseas with experience (Gerhard Mostert, Frans Steyn, Jaque Fourie, Ruan Pienaar) to bolster the number of home based core players (Du Plessis brothers, Beast, Bekker, Burger, Alberts, Brussow, Hougaard, Lambie, Aplon, De Jongh) and then 2 or 3 new guys and the year after 3 more.
Some guys like JP Pietersen need to show some form in Superrugby while I sincerely hope Juan Smith gets fit and Spies and Habana get dropped totally. Maybe with some gametime Chiliboy can also justify his probable inclusion. He certainly has talent but his selection has never been truly justified IMO.
Some up-and-commers and/or fringe players I'd like to see get a look-in (depending on Superrugby form and fitness): Adriaan Strauss, Rynhardt Elstadt, Arno Botha, Riaan Viljoen, Johan Goosen and Jaco Taute.
It is quite a joke how some people sommer asume that HM will give blind preverance to Bull players.(maybe it is because deep down the know the bulls are the best ) and that the boks will play only kicking rugby.
The bulls gameplane was build around the strengh of certain individuals and it wasn't the game plan that made the bulls succesfull, it was the excecution of the game plan and the fact that everybody bought into that plan and took ownership of it.
I am pretty sure that HM will look at the players available and there strenghs and build a game plan around that.
personally I don't care whether the boks play a running or kicking game as long as they WIN!!
I agree with stormer2010 that the biggest challenge will be that of captain. I would love to see Juan Smith be the captain and in the side but I also think we (and Juan himself) must start to accept the his time is over as well. I mean he allready has a injury again!? He is just one of those unlucky players that are injury prone like Andre Pretorius. I have read in the newspapers that HM will apoint a short term captain and then later a long term captain (Arno Botha perhaps??)
I will sommer put my neck out and start a warm debat and give the team that I think might do it for the poms and 4 nations.
15- F Steyn
14- JP Pietersen
13- J Fourie
12- Jean De Villiers- C
11- Gio Aplon
10- M Steyn
9- Hougie
8- Schalk Burger
7- Juan Smit if not fit then Arno Botha at 8 and Schalla at 7
6- H Brussow
5- A Bekker
4- Flip vd Merwe (if he can produce the 2010 form)
3- Dr Du Plessis
2- The doctor's brother
1- Guthro
16- Chilli
17- Rynardt Elstadt
18- Dean Greyling (keep an eye on him in the S15)
19- Arno Botha- If in Juan's place then marcel Coetzee (sharks)
20- Johan Goosen
21- Mvovu
22- Juan de Jongh
I know the biggest debate will be 10 but Lambie didn't perform at test level when he got the oppertunity. At test level you want someone who can kick it over 80% of the time. I would give Morne the 10 jersey for now but i.m.o. Johan Goosen will be the guy for 2015.
would love to hear your views.
) and that the boks will play only kicking rugby. The bulls gameplane was build around the strengh of certain individuals and it wasn't the game plan that made the bulls succesfull, it was the excecution of the game plan and the fact that everybody bought into that plan and took ownership of it.
I am pretty sure that HM will look at the players available and there strenghs and build a game plan around that.
personally I don't care whether the boks play a running or kicking game as long as they WIN!!
I agree with stormer2010 that the biggest challenge will be that of captain. I would love to see Juan Smith be the captain and in the side but I also think we (and Juan himself) must start to accept the his time is over as well. I mean he allready has a injury again!? He is just one of those unlucky players that are injury prone like Andre Pretorius. I have read in the newspapers that HM will apoint a short term captain and then later a long term captain (Arno Botha perhaps??)
I will sommer put my neck out and start a warm debat and give the team that I think might do it for the poms and 4 nations.
15- F Steyn
14- JP Pietersen
13- J Fourie
12- Jean De Villiers- C
11- Gio Aplon
10- M Steyn
9- Hougie
8- Schalk Burger
7- Juan Smit if not fit then Arno Botha at 8 and Schalla at 7
6- H Brussow
5- A Bekker
4- Flip vd Merwe (if he can produce the 2010 form)
3- Dr Du Plessis
2- The doctor's brother
1- Guthro
16- Chilli
17- Rynardt Elstadt
18- Dean Greyling (keep an eye on him in the S15)
19- Arno Botha- If in Juan's place then marcel Coetzee (sharks)
20- Johan Goosen
21- Mvovu
22- Juan de Jongh
I know the biggest debate will be 10 but Lambie didn't perform at test level when he got the oppertunity. At test level you want someone who can kick it over 80% of the time. I would give Morne the 10 jersey for now but i.m.o. Johan Goosen will be the guy for 2015.
would love to hear your views.
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Seaton
First XV
Wee question, when was Lambie given this opportunity you speak of?
Personally I'd like to see a bit more 'newness' and some fresh faces. I see you have some on the bench but I'd like to have us go a bit further even if we do struggle at first. Frans Steyn has never impressed me at 15 though he is a shoe-in at 12 for us IMO.
10 will be the BIG one. I simply cannot see Morne Steyn in a 'new' set-up. Hopefully he proves me wrong but when our backline 'clicked' it was more to do with the form of FdP rather than Steyn and our current options at 9 aren't as tactically astute as FdP at his best was. That means that our flyhalf will have to dictate play and I think Lambie is a much more rounded player and then there is Goosen, Ebersohn and Jantjies all capable back-up and could even pass Lambie with time and experience. I just can't see us make a turn in the right direction carrying the baggage that kept us back in the last 2 years. Smit is out by default but I think Steyn, Spies, JdV and Habana limit our potential.
My team for England (a few new faces lookin toward bringing in new blood but mostly players who have been there)
15 Riaan Viljoen
14 Jaco Taute
13 Jaque Fourie
12 Francois Steyn
11 Gio Aplon
10 Patrick Lambie
9 Francois Hougaard
8 Arno Botha
7 Schalk Burger (c) / Juan Smith if fit
6 Heinrich Brussow
5 Andries Bekker
4 Gerhard Mostert
3 Jannie du Plessis
2 Bismarck du Plessis
1
16 Adriaan Strauss / Chiliboy Ralepele (depending on SR form)
17
18 Flip van der Merwe / Rynhardt Elstadt
19 Duane Vermeulen / Francois Louw / Joshua Strauss
20 Ruan Pienaar
21 Johan Goosen / Elton Jantjies / Sias Ebersohn (depending on SR form) or Morne Steyn as experienced back-up
22 Juan de Jongh
I have no idea on the props; we'll have to wait and see I guess who goes the best against top opposition.
JP Pietersen has to prove himself again IMO. So too does Willem Alberts.
Later on I'd try guys like Etzebeth and Francois Venter, Siya Kolisi etc depending on their performances in Super rugby.
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He came on as a sub in the tri nations last year and he had a start in the RWC. He does have talent and potential but i.m.o. Johan Goosen has more. Lambie will be older and more expierence this year and might prove me wrong, but if I had to put money down at this stage it will be on Goosen.
I agree with most of everything you've said and come to think of it Steyn might be a better option at 12 than JDV. In that case I would put Taute at 15, there are a number of better wings. (Engelbrecht, Poolman, Mvovu, that other new guy at the Sharks, Killian, and G van den Heever).
I would stick with Morne at 10 but as I said in my previous post it is only for the poms and 4 nations. On end of year tour I will take Lambie/ goosen/ Jantjes (which ever come through the strongest in the S15 and CC).
I will blood the youngsters in the end of year tour for eye on 2015 RWC. Meyer said he want's to win from the word go and therefor I think we might expect to someone like Morne, Jean and Habana still a bit longer than we want to.
regarding the props; I've heard thet Beast broke his leg so he is out for the year. Dean Greyling (bulls) is awesome so is Coenie Oosthuizen (cheetas). Youngsters are Kitshoff (WP) Frik Kirtsen (bulls).
He played once(!) as a fly-half. The other matches he played, were at full-back and even then he didn't get a fair chance
Well, I'm all for winning rugby. Morne needs to really have a great season as these 4 young guys are hot on his heels (with Lambie already showing he can cut it at test level and just needing a bit more time at 10 with both Sharks and some time with the Bokke) and his experience might not be enough to warrant his position as 1st choice flyhalf. As for Habana and JdV, we allready have better option in F Steyn and Aplon who have more than enough experience. It's time for these guys to move on.
WRT props. I heard Beast might be ready for England but that's a BIG if. These things usually drag on. I'd like to see Greyling build on his performances of last year and get more time to work on his scrummaging. Without a dout Oosthuizen is the most handy prop in SA around the park and if can sort out his work in the scrum; get pinged less, then he is a shoe-in for Guthro. Kitshoff... he got hammered again on the weekend in the scrums by all accounts. I'm hoping Macel van der Merwe steps up or either Heinke vand er Merwe or Wian du Preez come back to SA.
WRT props. I heard Beast might be ready for England but that's a BIG if. These things usually drag on. I'd like to see Greyling build on his performances of last year and get more time to work on his scrummaging. Without a dout Oosthuizen is the most handy prop in SA around the park and if can sort out his work in the scrum; get pinged less, then he is a shoe-in for Guthro. Kitshoff... he got hammered again on the weekend in the scrums by all accounts. I'm hoping Macel van der Merwe steps up or either Heinke vand er Merwe or Wian du Preez come back to SA.
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well compare him to someone like hougie who took every half chance he got with both hands and made them count whether it was at 9 or 11/14. I've got nothing against Lambie and there was a stage last year that he would have been my next 10, but then came Johan Goosen and i.m.o. he is better than Lambie.
You might be of the opinion that Lambie is better and that is ok. The world would have been a boring place if everyone agrees on every thing.
However time will tell and after this years S15 I might change my opinion and back someone like Gary v Aswegen, who Knows?
Seaton
First XV
Indeed, but the crux of my question is that is it not better to develop two young options, even if at the same time, to compete with each other, rather than one and Morne Steyn?
What can Steyn do that Goosen can't? Got BMT some would say, but to that I would say his teams only need BMT in kicking because of his play in other aspects.
I say (depending on SupeRugby of course) start Lambie at 10 for the England series, with Goosen on the bench. If Goosen doesn't under-perform when coming on, then he is ready. If he starts and doesn't perform, well then you have a problem until the sub comes on.
I too rate Goosen as a bigger prospect at fly-half for SA for the future, with Lambie at 12 etc... (been over numerous times), but when there are other options available, you go the most secure route with the option of blooding Goosen, verstaan jy?
